Hey, Ryan. My brain popped up with another thought. The flight is to Moscow. Could it be a possibility that Russians don't send seriously wounded there - to avoid publicity? There have to be other hospitals able to treat ('Trauma Centers') in this bis chunk of land called RuF. So, Moscow only 'Green' and 'Yellow' tags - and the occasional VIPs? ...otherwise i tend to the 'conversion in transit'-theory...
This could actually make for an interesting article. Likely it would be quite a bit of work with a greater than zero chance of being stonewalled by Russian opacity, but since you aren't doing anything... /jk
Incisive, insightful, thoughtful analysis, as usual. As a veteran of the US combat MEDEVAC system in Vietnam in September, 1965 (WIA, gunshot) while serving in A Company, 2nd 502nd Inf, I can attest that own personal experience of care, treatment, and evacuation was the diametric opposite of everything so woefully on display in this video. Every step of the way, from initial treatment at the firefight, through Battalion Aid Station, in-country US Army Evacuation Hospital, USAF Hospital at Clarke Field (Philippines), to US Army Hospital at Camp Zama, Japan (site of my recuperation), my processing was marked by attentive, skillful, concerned care and treatment offered by trained professionals and caretakers. Thanks to them, I was able to return to my unit in Vietnam in just 2 months, and successfully completed my tour.
I hope they all die. Because I don't want one of them showing back up to fight against Ukraine. Which if they are lightly wounded, is a real possibility. Ukraine isn't going to win by hoping people who came to their country to rape, murder, torture and terrorize them recover from wounds.
What's the meme? "How did George Washington defeat the British? He killed them." Or in other words, he killed enough of them to where being in the US wasn't a good idea anymore.
That's Ukraine. Ukraine has to kill enough Russians to where being in Ukraine is no longer a good idea for Putin. So wishing the enemy a speedy recovery isn't supporting the cause.
You have said you are pro Ukraine. I take you at your word. But you seem to have a poor understanding of the task set to Ukraine.
I invited you to Ukraine two months ago. That's fine. I'll live. But if you don't take up my invitation you need to find your way there and live among them. So you don't say silly things like... (para phrase) "I hope the enemy gets well soon."
If the enemy doesn't like suffering and death... they can always leave (An option Ukraine doesn't have by the way.). If you are rank and file... you can always frag your command. Some have. Those guys I do hope have a speedy recovery. God bless them.
This isn't the first instance you opined your sorrow for the health and disposition of rapists and murders. That's what the Russian army is. That's factual. Putin didn't drive down to Bucha, Irpin or just yesterday a small town in Kherson where they killed an entire family on a farm. Gone Ryan.
So.. yeah. I hope the plane goes down and kills every fucking one of them.
Get on a plane (and train) and explain yourself to a local Ukrainian about why you are sending wishes well to the fucking enemy.
So, I am interested in coming to Ukraine, but I need press credentials first. I am working on that with Newsmax.
There are a lot of things I've done in Iraq that I wish I had done differently. I can be pro-Ukraine, but understand the mental cost of killing. If a bad guy is between me and my way home, I have zero problem with ending his life. I understand that the only way Russia goes home is if enough soldiers are killed that they have no other choice.
But when you have done things that you can't take back, you look at killing a lot differently.
I can see both sides of the argument. I have a lot of respect for you Ryan; You earned much of it simply by serving our country. Your view is part of what makes our military and society among the best in the world.
However, as I see this war drag on, my viewpoint is steadily shifting to the OP's. Every day that Russia continues this war is yet another day that Ukrainian civilians are dying along with dozens/hundreds of Ukraine's soldiers being maimed or killed. I think there is a wide moral gap between your service in the Middle East and Ukraine Armed Forces fighting for the very survival of their nation in a war they didn't start. As Americans, you and I have the luxury of being citizens of the most powerful (economically and militarily) nation on the planet. It's been a long time since we've been seriously threatened by a conventional invasion.
My best wishes to both Ryan and the people of Ukraine!
What do you mean they didn't start it? NATO started giving Ukraine the best military training and support for war since 2013. They have been gearing up for this war since then. And they said "Bring it on". Joke: How can you tell the difference between a Ukrainian tank and a Russian tank from an aerial view? Easy, you'll find a Ukrainian tank parked behind his mother's house lying in wait, having informed her that he is there to protect her. Hint: It is a law against war to park your tank anywhere near a civilian building as it puts the building and it's occupants in immediate danger of being hit. But the Ukrainians have been doing this since day one. I have no reason to favour either side. And also, Zelenski thinks that the word Democracy is a band of ammunition. The victims are the civilians on both sides and millions of young soldiers who have been brainwashed on both sides into believing in what they are fighting for.
When you look in the eyes of those without a means to defend themselves you look at Russia differently.
I hope you make a lot of Ukrainian friends. Because you are not nearly as clear-eyed on this as you need to be. If you are not angry and ready to pray for the death of as many Russians as possible... then you don't get it. Because that's the only way this war ends. Horrific, catastrophic, undeniable losses on the Russian side. Suffering on a scale that can't be hidden from the average Russian. You have to WISH this suffering on enemy. Because that's the only way we stop Russia.
If Russia was not run by a dictator with total control over the media... this would be different. A measured response might be enough. We would wish well the enemy who one day might be our brothers in commerce and trade. But in this war... I don't just want them to die. I want them to die horribly, on video... and I want that video sent to their mom and grandmother. I want their local town talk about it. I want it to be ghastly and undeniable.
Because then that poor Russian bastard actually suffered for something good. He suffered to bring an end to this stupid war.
One day when you are sitting in Kherson/Odesa/Kharkiv looking at babies and children all over the place you will understand. Let those bastards bleed out on that tarmac. Let that video go viral. Let it give Russian moms and babushkas nightmares. Because all of that is better than one more death of a child in Ukraine.
I do agree with both opinions stated here. I want Ukrainian people to win in a way that no-one can question the outcome. The sad truth is many of the Russian fighters dont want to be there doing the war. The truth is also; there are some who are doing things that are war crimes because they think they can get away with it. Although I will point out any Russian fighter that is treated and returns to the fight or home will have seen many things that prove that the war is based on lies. That is something that cant be ignored.
I believe that very few of these wounded Russian Soldiers will return to fight again. They may provide some of the best efforts to turn the sentiment against the wst and this monster Putin. As for these wounded soldiers, those that participated directly in injuring and killing innocent people (and children!) - I hope that they die while lying in the sun, waiting for a medvac.
Nope. I feel zero pity for them. None. They are the aggressor invading another sovereign FREE land. No pity. No Quarter. You’ll get neither from Russia.
Ryan, although I agree with you completely about the FOD issue, I believe that we are looking at this airfield with Western eyes. I recommend you either watch or read the transcript for the PBS/NOVA episode "Top Gun Over Moscow", (PBS Airdate: 12 Nov 1996), which you can watch for free on YouTube. The episode is about 55 minutes long, but it explains the Russian mentality towards FOD and how they intentionally mitigate for it by design, and are less concerned about it than a western air force might be. In other words, this seems to be normal for a Russian airfield. Regardless, take a look if you have time, and let us know what you think.
Mitigation by design almost always means that some sacrifice had to be made, and usually another field of performance suffers because of it be it speed, range, etc.
The maxim "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"; is also applicable here. If you exercise relatively basic discipline (managing trash is something parents teach children for relatively low stakes) then you get a twofold benefit; you can afford to design higher-performing jets for the same amount of resources because you are able to handle tighter tolerances, and your military looks and acts more disciplined both at home and in the field, which is likely to bring about performance benefits as well.
But the Russians are unable (I sincerely doubt Russian leadership are unwilling to bring their troops up to those standards of cleanliness and discipline) to bring their troops up to that standard, and we see them suffering because of it (and they're likely to be suffering for it unseen to us as well, when undisciplined generation of trash and debris gives them away to Ukrainian military ISR assets).
small point of disagreement! I don't believe the aircraft's engines are idling, just the APU. Idling the aircraft's engines would be much, much louder, windier, and burn way too much fuel.
Very detailed look at much info can be gleaned from otherwise random video. The lack of any attending medical personnel or even troops to assist with moving stretchers etc is very telling. I wonder who took this?? It looks like it was being recorded so no one would notice the operator. I assume taking any video of wounded service men in any military in the world would be stopped and the video or phone chip taken
The Soviet Union/Russia has never been known to care much about anyone...
It's holdover mentality from Communist era thinking... They've long been know to throw masses of troops at an enemy to achieve their goals... Same for China in the Korean War...
Not being able to discern the extent of their injuries from this video I'm left to wonder why they are being Medevacked to Moscow period... They just don't appear to need anything more serious than some light duty for a while... Maybe Ryan's correct about the more serious being kept inside until it's time to load and go... Because otherwise nothing about this makes sense other than they are just going through the motions of caring while not really caring at all....
BTW, lack of serious FOD discipline would explain a lot of their Aircraft crashing for no apparent reason, lol...
the sad part is that many of these soldiers come from very small villages, much of Russia to the East is very backward compared to Moscow and the Russia we think of when we think Russia. They may not even know this is poor care of soldiers, and I hope they understand they do NOT deserve this treatment.
Sad state of affairs Ryan. It all comes down IMHO in the morale of the soldiers involved. Poor morale give birth to bad results. As a former Marine, anyone Corporal or above would have taken care of this. The absolute lack of personnel to see to the basic needs of those injured soldiers while they await their flight is very disturbing. Anyone who has ever worked at an airfield would be appalled by all the FOB just laying around. It is hard to believe that this could occur in a modern military. Thanks Ryan for all the good content.
Another possibility could be that they triage and anyone that doesn't need immediate treatment is "discharged" to the rear to make room for urgent patients. The reason there's no medics would be because they've essentially "cast off" these casualties as someone else's problem and have their full manpower and attention on the Cat A and Cat B casualties
What do you think of the guy doing the filming? He was wearing a VDV uniform. And it appeared clean and undamaged. Could the wounded be fellow airborne?
I thought it was weird that a paratrooper wasn’t aware of FOD, but I think the guy is Naval Infantry. When I paused the video the stripes were a little too dark blue for a VDV telnyashka, which is light blue.
Hi Ryan. Regarding the state of the airfield, I watched a video awhile back which compared American vs Russian military airfields. The American ones were pristine with airmen doing walks up the runway to clear debris whereas the Russian runways clearly had debris on them and we’re not in such a pristine state. The video stated that Russian planes are built to handle such scenarios since in wartime there could be lots of debris on an airfield and it might not be possible to keep it as clean as one would like - it seems this is a design decision by the Russians. That said, the state of that airfield and those men is appalling.
Hey, Ryan. My brain popped up with another thought. The flight is to Moscow. Could it be a possibility that Russians don't send seriously wounded there - to avoid publicity? There have to be other hospitals able to treat ('Trauma Centers') in this bis chunk of land called RuF. So, Moscow only 'Green' and 'Yellow' tags - and the occasional VIPs? ...otherwise i tend to the 'conversion in transit'-theory...
That is possible. I would have to do some research. I'm not sure of Russia's equivalent of Walter Reed or Bethesda Naval Hospital.
This could actually make for an interesting article. Likely it would be quite a bit of work with a greater than zero chance of being stonewalled by Russian opacity, but since you aren't doing anything... /jk
Incisive, insightful, thoughtful analysis, as usual. As a veteran of the US combat MEDEVAC system in Vietnam in September, 1965 (WIA, gunshot) while serving in A Company, 2nd 502nd Inf, I can attest that own personal experience of care, treatment, and evacuation was the diametric opposite of everything so woefully on display in this video. Every step of the way, from initial treatment at the firefight, through Battalion Aid Station, in-country US Army Evacuation Hospital, USAF Hospital at Clarke Field (Philippines), to US Army Hospital at Camp Zama, Japan (site of my recuperation), my processing was marked by attentive, skillful, concerned care and treatment offered by trained professionals and caretakers. Thanks to them, I was able to return to my unit in Vietnam in just 2 months, and successfully completed my tour.
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I hope they all die. Because I don't want one of them showing back up to fight against Ukraine. Which if they are lightly wounded, is a real possibility. Ukraine isn't going to win by hoping people who came to their country to rape, murder, torture and terrorize them recover from wounds.
What's the meme? "How did George Washington defeat the British? He killed them." Or in other words, he killed enough of them to where being in the US wasn't a good idea anymore.
That's Ukraine. Ukraine has to kill enough Russians to where being in Ukraine is no longer a good idea for Putin. So wishing the enemy a speedy recovery isn't supporting the cause.
You have said you are pro Ukraine. I take you at your word. But you seem to have a poor understanding of the task set to Ukraine.
I invited you to Ukraine two months ago. That's fine. I'll live. But if you don't take up my invitation you need to find your way there and live among them. So you don't say silly things like... (para phrase) "I hope the enemy gets well soon."
If the enemy doesn't like suffering and death... they can always leave (An option Ukraine doesn't have by the way.). If you are rank and file... you can always frag your command. Some have. Those guys I do hope have a speedy recovery. God bless them.
This isn't the first instance you opined your sorrow for the health and disposition of rapists and murders. That's what the Russian army is. That's factual. Putin didn't drive down to Bucha, Irpin or just yesterday a small town in Kherson where they killed an entire family on a farm. Gone Ryan.
So.. yeah. I hope the plane goes down and kills every fucking one of them.
Get on a plane (and train) and explain yourself to a local Ukrainian about why you are sending wishes well to the fucking enemy.
So, I am interested in coming to Ukraine, but I need press credentials first. I am working on that with Newsmax.
There are a lot of things I've done in Iraq that I wish I had done differently. I can be pro-Ukraine, but understand the mental cost of killing. If a bad guy is between me and my way home, I have zero problem with ending his life. I understand that the only way Russia goes home is if enough soldiers are killed that they have no other choice.
But when you have done things that you can't take back, you look at killing a lot differently.
I can see both sides of the argument. I have a lot of respect for you Ryan; You earned much of it simply by serving our country. Your view is part of what makes our military and society among the best in the world.
However, as I see this war drag on, my viewpoint is steadily shifting to the OP's. Every day that Russia continues this war is yet another day that Ukrainian civilians are dying along with dozens/hundreds of Ukraine's soldiers being maimed or killed. I think there is a wide moral gap between your service in the Middle East and Ukraine Armed Forces fighting for the very survival of their nation in a war they didn't start. As Americans, you and I have the luxury of being citizens of the most powerful (economically and militarily) nation on the planet. It's been a long time since we've been seriously threatened by a conventional invasion.
My best wishes to both Ryan and the people of Ukraine!
What do you mean they didn't start it? NATO started giving Ukraine the best military training and support for war since 2013. They have been gearing up for this war since then. And they said "Bring it on". Joke: How can you tell the difference between a Ukrainian tank and a Russian tank from an aerial view? Easy, you'll find a Ukrainian tank parked behind his mother's house lying in wait, having informed her that he is there to protect her. Hint: It is a law against war to park your tank anywhere near a civilian building as it puts the building and it's occupants in immediate danger of being hit. But the Ukrainians have been doing this since day one. I have no reason to favour either side. And also, Zelenski thinks that the word Democracy is a band of ammunition. The victims are the civilians on both sides and millions of young soldiers who have been brainwashed on both sides into believing in what they are fighting for.
Wow, I'm glad you aren't my neighbor. Troll much?
When you look in the eyes of those without a means to defend themselves you look at Russia differently.
I hope you make a lot of Ukrainian friends. Because you are not nearly as clear-eyed on this as you need to be. If you are not angry and ready to pray for the death of as many Russians as possible... then you don't get it. Because that's the only way this war ends. Horrific, catastrophic, undeniable losses on the Russian side. Suffering on a scale that can't be hidden from the average Russian. You have to WISH this suffering on enemy. Because that's the only way we stop Russia.
If Russia was not run by a dictator with total control over the media... this would be different. A measured response might be enough. We would wish well the enemy who one day might be our brothers in commerce and trade. But in this war... I don't just want them to die. I want them to die horribly, on video... and I want that video sent to their mom and grandmother. I want their local town talk about it. I want it to be ghastly and undeniable.
Because then that poor Russian bastard actually suffered for something good. He suffered to bring an end to this stupid war.
One day when you are sitting in Kherson/Odesa/Kharkiv looking at babies and children all over the place you will understand. Let those bastards bleed out on that tarmac. Let that video go viral. Let it give Russian moms and babushkas nightmares. Because all of that is better than one more death of a child in Ukraine.
I do agree with both opinions stated here. I want Ukrainian people to win in a way that no-one can question the outcome. The sad truth is many of the Russian fighters dont want to be there doing the war. The truth is also; there are some who are doing things that are war crimes because they think they can get away with it. Although I will point out any Russian fighter that is treated and returns to the fight or home will have seen many things that prove that the war is based on lies. That is something that cant be ignored.
I believe that very few of these wounded Russian Soldiers will return to fight again. They may provide some of the best efforts to turn the sentiment against the wst and this monster Putin. As for these wounded soldiers, those that participated directly in injuring and killing innocent people (and children!) - I hope that they die while lying in the sun, waiting for a medvac.
Nope. I feel zero pity for them. None. They are the aggressor invading another sovereign FREE land. No pity. No Quarter. You’ll get neither from Russia.
Ryan, although I agree with you completely about the FOD issue, I believe that we are looking at this airfield with Western eyes. I recommend you either watch or read the transcript for the PBS/NOVA episode "Top Gun Over Moscow", (PBS Airdate: 12 Nov 1996), which you can watch for free on YouTube. The episode is about 55 minutes long, but it explains the Russian mentality towards FOD and how they intentionally mitigate for it by design, and are less concerned about it than a western air force might be. In other words, this seems to be normal for a Russian airfield. Regardless, take a look if you have time, and let us know what you think.
Mitigation by design almost always means that some sacrifice had to be made, and usually another field of performance suffers because of it be it speed, range, etc.
The maxim "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"; is also applicable here. If you exercise relatively basic discipline (managing trash is something parents teach children for relatively low stakes) then you get a twofold benefit; you can afford to design higher-performing jets for the same amount of resources because you are able to handle tighter tolerances, and your military looks and acts more disciplined both at home and in the field, which is likely to bring about performance benefits as well.
But the Russians are unable (I sincerely doubt Russian leadership are unwilling to bring their troops up to those standards of cleanliness and discipline) to bring their troops up to that standard, and we see them suffering because of it (and they're likely to be suffering for it unseen to us as well, when undisciplined generation of trash and debris gives them away to Ukrainian military ISR assets).
small point of disagreement! I don't believe the aircraft's engines are idling, just the APU. Idling the aircraft's engines would be much, much louder, windier, and burn way too much fuel.
to your point, though, yes, that area is a FOD disaster waiting to happen.
Very detailed look at much info can be gleaned from otherwise random video. The lack of any attending medical personnel or even troops to assist with moving stretchers etc is very telling. I wonder who took this?? It looks like it was being recorded so no one would notice the operator. I assume taking any video of wounded service men in any military in the world would be stopped and the video or phone chip taken
Did you watch to the end? The camera operator turns the camera on himself
The Soviet Union/Russia has never been known to care much about anyone...
It's holdover mentality from Communist era thinking... They've long been know to throw masses of troops at an enemy to achieve their goals... Same for China in the Korean War...
Not being able to discern the extent of their injuries from this video I'm left to wonder why they are being Medevacked to Moscow period... They just don't appear to need anything more serious than some light duty for a while... Maybe Ryan's correct about the more serious being kept inside until it's time to load and go... Because otherwise nothing about this makes sense other than they are just going through the motions of caring while not really caring at all....
BTW, lack of serious FOD discipline would explain a lot of their Aircraft crashing for no apparent reason, lol...
That would be the perfect use case for a nice DPICM or two.
Wouldn't these people be hors de combat under the Geneva convention?
They're out of the fight due to wounds and are unarmed.
the sad part is that many of these soldiers come from very small villages, much of Russia to the East is very backward compared to Moscow and the Russia we think of when we think Russia. They may not even know this is poor care of soldiers, and I hope they understand they do NOT deserve this treatment.
Sad state of affairs Ryan. It all comes down IMHO in the morale of the soldiers involved. Poor morale give birth to bad results. As a former Marine, anyone Corporal or above would have taken care of this. The absolute lack of personnel to see to the basic needs of those injured soldiers while they await their flight is very disturbing. Anyone who has ever worked at an airfield would be appalled by all the FOB just laying around. It is hard to believe that this could occur in a modern military. Thanks Ryan for all the good content.
Another possibility could be that they triage and anyone that doesn't need immediate treatment is "discharged" to the rear to make room for urgent patients. The reason there's no medics would be because they've essentially "cast off" these casualties as someone else's problem and have their full manpower and attention on the Cat A and Cat B casualties
What do you think of the guy doing the filming? He was wearing a VDV uniform. And it appeared clean and undamaged. Could the wounded be fellow airborne?
He is probably VDV. Maybe he’s in charge of marshaling?
I thought it was weird that a paratrooper wasn’t aware of FOD, but I think the guy is Naval Infantry. When I paused the video the stripes were a little too dark blue for a VDV telnyashka, which is light blue.
I dropped my sub because I can't cast to TV from Substack. Sorry.
No. See Ryan’s recent comments on this subject. Being wounded does NOT make you hors de combat.
Hi Ryan. Regarding the state of the airfield, I watched a video awhile back which compared American vs Russian military airfields. The American ones were pristine with airmen doing walks up the runway to clear debris whereas the Russian runways clearly had debris on them and we’re not in such a pristine state. The video stated that Russian planes are built to handle such scenarios since in wartime there could be lots of debris on an airfield and it might not be possible to keep it as clean as one would like - it seems this is a design decision by the Russians. That said, the state of that airfield and those men is appalling.