You forget about the Muslim practice of Taqiyyah. This is the Muslim belief that you can lie to infidels as long as it furthers the advancement of Islam. His opinion is probably that by lying on social media is making his bridge a 4 lane highway.
It doesn’t call itself a religion. It is a way of life, in every aspect. It’s clerics ARE the government. They are the judges in all things. That’s where the West doesn't get it. In Islam, it is impossible to have a separation of faith and government. The faith is everything and controls everything.
As far as I can tell, "taqiyyah" refers only to lying to avoid being persecuted. In other words, they believe that they can say that they are not Muslims if they are threatened with being killed. It has nothing to do with general deception.
Good post, Ryan and you are probably correct in your analysis. I am a little uncomfortable with your description of Israeli bombing in Gaza as “precision”. I think we are looking at about 30,000 dead people as a result of that “precision” and we also have the opinion of the International Court of Justice regarding Israel’s prosecution of this war. Because I have spent a lot of time in Islamic nations, I appreciate and have admired your understanding of Arabic and what is (to me) a fairly humanistic approach to these complex conflicts, especially given your own combat experience in the region.
But in many ways, Israel is reaping the harvest of its own history in this conflict and this war is a deeply ugly one—and I include in that the terrible events of October 7th. I think you work hard and generally successfully to avoid partisan opinions or the appearance of bias, and good on you for that. But I think perhaps you let your passions get the better of you here. But don’t let my opinion slow you down, keep up the good work.
1. When Hamas hides inside civilian buildings including schools and hospitals 30K is a very good number.
2. Hamas has "no militants", so any fighting man can just throw the AK and since their uniforms are specifically for propaganda that man is now "a civilian".
3. The UN counts 18 year olds as children. What makes you think Hamas don't "hire" at 16?
4. The court is led by a Lebanese man while Lebanon is a state actively fighting Israel. You'd think they'd try and at least act impartial. Nobody else available?
5. All things considered the numbers still rely on the Hamas controlled Health ministry. Guess what their agenda is?
Anyway it's always been like this. The temple is always in danger since the 1920s and Israel has always been accused of genocide. The temple still stands and Palestinians somehow still multiply. So long as Israel is the world's distraction the game will go on.
I completely agree with you. Hamas is using the innocent Palestinians as human shields to score a Vietnam War-style propaganda victory on Israel. Remember, the Tet Offensive was a military disaster for the Viet Cong, but the US lost the will to fight despite being, for the first time, at the cusp of victory. IMO, that is what Hamas is going for. Their country's women and men be damned.
Your leftist propaganda has been exposed so obviously and blantaly. You can fool me once but not twice. As long as your 3 million border proxies do not vote, dems will lose badly in 2024. You gonna come back and play ?😅
As far as I know, I made no statements that were leftist or relating to the Democratic party. It is hard to argue that a bombing campaign that killed 30,000 people lacked precision, or that Israel's history of refusing to engage with or solve the problem of the hostile Palestinian population living on the land intended as a Jewish homeland has caused them severe problems from the first Arab riots or 1928 until today. You might argue about who is at fault or who caused what, but you can't argue with simple facts like these.
You really need to go to another forum to spill your propaganda. I'm not buying anything you stated. IDF bombing campaigns have been surgically performed with advanced notice and well documented. Did you count the bodies yourself? However, I have seen the horrific imagery of innocent Israelis savagely unalived, raped and children beheaded on October 7th. Would you not defend or avenge your family if this happened to you?
The sad thing about your viewpoint, is that in your relentless Israeli boosterism, the humanity and suffering of the Palestinians is entirely erased, and it is real human suffering. In the real world, both populations are suffering and both are suffering for intertwined and complicated historical reasons. A Palestinian journalist once said to me “This is not a conflict between right and wrong, it is a conflict between two rights”. There is plenty of bloodshed, cruelty and blame to go around.
arguing that it wasn't "precise" because 30k civilians died over the grand total of probably hundreds of thousands, or at least tens of thousands of strikes by the IDF, *(who btw: DONT HAVE TO DO THIS, but every time they bomb targets, near civilians:, before they strike, they send BLANKET text messages telling people "GET OUT of the building" and it'll be bombed in "X" amount of time!", then they do a "roof knock". with a very light explosive, to let people know they aren't making empty threats, and then when those very civilians try to leave, Hamas SHOOTS at those civilians for attempting to leave the site! So civilian casualties are unavoidable if you want to rid the world of the bile and cancer that is "Hamas!" i mean, C'mon this is the group that MURDERED it's PALESTINIAN OPPOSITION GROUP RIGHT AFTER THEY WERE ELECTED TO POWER! So, in light of all those FACTS, it's just my opinion, but the civilian deaths are 90% a direct result of the actions of HAMAS! I've seen videos on reddit of over 250 Civilians trying to leave a hospital in broad daylight as a GIANT GROUP, and suddenly Hamas gunmen start shooting 1 or 2 people in the front of the group, so to that group of civilians the safest place around is to be off the street and pray the building doesn't come down on them! So they're FORCED to run right back into the building and await they're injuries or death! So how is that Israel's fault? When they are trying EVERYTHING THEY CAN to get the civilians away from Hamas?. From your point of view, Israel should just not fight back, and allow Hamas to do whatever it wants to it's people? How can you sit there and say something so asenine and not "thought out" and say, "oh the IDF killed 30k civilians!".... yet MOST of these dead civilians would NEVER HAVE DIED IF HAMAS WOULD JUST LET THEM GET TO SAFETY?!?! (some are going to be accidental as well, which IDF has taken responsibility for in those cases, because sadly, thats a fact of Warfare! But to call someone else out as a "Israeli booster" when you do the same for the Hamas and IRAN side! Defending Hamas or even if your just condemning Israel for their tactics,... your whole argument it makes no logical sense because the side your defending is even WORSE than the actions of the side your condemning! So i hope you do your research before you claim innocents were murdered, because they weren't murdered they were hoistages first and became cuaght in a war they had nothing to do with until someone FORCED THEM to be the sandbags that Hamas would hide behind!
I'm not American thus don't care for any arbitrary arm/leg selections. For a tight space from where Hamas keeps firing indiscriminately at civilians the fact that Israel has ANY precision is automatically elevated to surgical grade.
Israel has a long history of giving the Arabs a hand and they have never missed a chance to slap it back. UN divided, they attacked and lost . They kept fighting, they lost more. 6 day war, again. Peace with Egypt, peace with Jordan, Oslo agreements? Hebron?
Hamas had a very stable little space financed by EU and US( and a bit by oil Sheiks). They just had to accept Israel's existence so they can start talking things through. Birth rate was astronomical and life expectancy was higher than at least 10 American states(76.5ys). All the money went to building rat caves and tube rockets.
Today there are 9 million people in Israel and there was room for everyone in 1928. But no, mine mine mine. So they got stuck with jews from Europe, Russian empire and Almost every Muslim state(who were deported there...). Also Ethiopians.
Jews have nowhere else to go but Palestinians, Syrians, Jordanians? These are the colonial constructs. And once they love their children more than they hate Jews then things will change.
I’m afraid your deeply myopic view of history is making it difficult for you to grasp what is happening in this war. An excellent reference book explaining the history of the conflict is the widely-used college text book “Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict, A History with Documents, 10th edition” by Charles D. Smith. The Amazon blurb reads “The narrative is supported by more than 40 primary documents that highlight perspectives from all sides of the struggle. Throughout the book, the author examines how underlying issues, group motives, religious and cross-cultural clashes, diplomacy and imperialism, and the arrival of the modern era shaped this volatile region. Maps, photographs, chronologies, public opinion polls, and discussion questions help facilitate student understanding. A fully updated final chapter makes this the most current history of the topic.” Of course there are many other books on the subject, but this one is particularly detailed and comprehensive in its treatment and perhaps you would find it helpful.
Thanks for the considered reply, but I have no desire to try to re-litigate a complex and disputed history which goes back to the 1890's and contains a world of sorrow, war and loss. It is clear where your sympathies lie and you are certainly entitled to them.
It's more of something I have encountered quite a bit. The person throws the accusation. It lands. The accusation is examined and quickly found to be nonsense. Facts and context are gathered, and a response is put together to refute the accusation. The second the other person hears that a response is coming, but before they hear anything, they say "You know, I know you believe everything you hear from the side I just smeared. You'll never convince me that killing defenseless children is wrong, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. You have your beliefs, I have mine. But I certainly believe in your right to speak." (silently thinking "As in a right to speak to no one who's permitted to listen until that wonderful day comes when you are not permitted to speak at all!")
If you think about it, it's a verbal trick that mirrors the philosophy of how terrorists operate. Kill 1,200 innocent people. The second the Israelis start to respond we hear, "You know, I think we need to take a pause in the name of peace. We know you want to kill innocent children, and we don't agree with you. So if you'll call a halt to your planned genocide we can peacefully negotiate through 3rd Parties because we wouldn't be caught dead actually talking with you. We'll try to peacefully come to an agreement while we rearm to kill another ...I mean while we pass out food to the helpless."
That's why the answer to these liars should always be solve the problem. Not worry about the feelings of those who would spit on your dead body.
You know, the facts and accusations relating to this conflict go back a long time and reactions generally break down along one's personal view of the Israeli or Palestinian position. I have lived in Israel with my family and I have done a lot of historical work about the conflict. It is very complicated and you do it no justice with the kind of ham handed statement above. But thanks for replying to my post.
Yes, thank you for supporting my point. But no, I'm not beneath your superior intellect and sophistication anymore than the other commentator was--but you be you. On a side note, I'm guessing you do this with other issues is well--but this is your primary issue? Anyway, have a good rest of your day.
Considering that at least half of the 30,000 casualties are Hamas militants, and Hamas hides among civilians on purpose, I'd say that Israel's precision targeting is quite precise.
Israel has shown itself to be quite adept at targeted killings in the past. One car, one rocket, one terrorist leader dead. In the case of Gaza, they elected to use mass bombing which not only killed 30,000 people, but badly damaged Israel's reputation in the world, especially among young American Jews, and of course produced condemnation by the International Court of Justice and other international bodies.
Not in any way true. Gaza is a densely populated urban area. If Israel had conducted mass bombings, the casualty count would be far higher.
Think about it this way. More than half of the deaths are Hamas fighters who are deliberately hiding among civilians. If Israel were actually bombing indiscriminately, the casualty count would be higher and the civilian to militant ratio would be a lot more skewed towards civilians.
This is really becoming silly. You have no more idea than I do how many of the Palestinians killed in the bombing are Hamas fighters. We are now up to 39,000 dead, according to the New York Times. Even president Biden referred to the bombing as indiscriminate. There is a simple and clear reason how Isreali's squandered the enormous sympathy the world at large felt for them after the October 7th terrorist attack and that is the astonishingly brutal bombing of Gaza. We also know the Israeli media does not show their public the footage the rest of us have seen of dead children, grieving mothers and massive urban destruction of homes and infrastructure, including hospitals, schools and universities.
39000 that is quoted from Hamas health minister. The same people who said that the rocket that crashed into the parking lot in October that they said killed 500people (oh actually 485was the revised number) and after several news reports had to correct their massive mistake of listening to hamas and claim theirs is no way there could of been that many dead from a failed Islamic jihad rocket. I am skeptical about both Israel and Hamas numbers. (More hamass number because driving the number up is great for them). But there have been text from sinwar (from the WSJ) who is very happy with all the death of his people. This war has been very low on the combatant vs civilians ratio (look up John Spencer for modern urban warfare institute). And so indiscriminate bombing comment. Biden press secretary said a day later they the us does not see any evidence in indiscriminate bombing. Now with all this said are there Israelis who would love nothing more to do indiscriminate bombing wipe the Palestinians off the map. Of course. But to me the action take so far are not indicative of that. Many people say that if Israel wanted to wipe out Gaza they sure have the man power and weapons to do so but that has not happened.
I was with you, way back when you said you wouldn't respond. But, now that you have...
I am an ardent Zionist, and yet I do mourn all of the Palestinian losses. I know that feeling of empathy is pretty much absent among my co-horts, but I do not blame them for that. They had war brought upon them (yet again).
And there may be some instances where the IDF has committed war crimes, but we'll have to allow time for "due process" investigations, etc. From the evidence we've seen so far, overall, with the possibility of some notable exceptions, Israel's war against terrorist Hamas has been conducted within the bounds of international law.
I think you had a much stronger argument regarding Israel's utterly failure in the political realm, which not only allowed Palestinian statelessness and misery to continue, but actually made the status quo devolve even further. But, an honest appraisal of political activity would also compel us to include corrupt Palestinian, Islamic and pan-Arabic "leadership", as we apportion blame for political failure.
In short, I agreed with you, in that this war has many fathers, all worthy of a portion of blame. Pretending that Israel is more blameworthy can only be upheld by ignoring plenty of other evidence.
Now that was an excellent, well thought out comment. In my humble opinion.
As far as the political failure--I don't know what you mean? Do you mean coming up with viable solutions within Israel and getting a buy-in from the relevant players--even those who consider peace to be something achieved only when every last Israeli Jew is dead? Or Israel's failure with the public relations effort. Hard to succeed when most of the Western media is just a few years removed from those American college protesters chanting "From the River to the Sea." Or when International bodies are controlled by the other side. But what do you mean. What is the solution that you would propose? Not being sarcastic--just asking.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment. Whether the war was "brought upon them (yet again)" depends on where you start the clock. This conflict did not start on October 7th. But I appreciate your willingness to consider other opinions.
Hamas keeps civilians as human shields. IDF telegraphs it's strikes days ahead with texts, leaflets and by megaphone. Why are there Palestinians still at strike center? It's all documented.
Estimates of the total number of deaths in the Syrian Civil War, by various war monitors, range between 580,000 as of May 2021, and approximately 617,910 as of March 2024. Yet the world focuses on Israel. I visited the Gaza region several weeks ago and what Hamas did to the Israelis that day at a concert is beyond forgiveness. Burning people in their cars and raping women and taking hostages. You can't blame that on the Israelis.
The Syrian Civil War has nothing to do with this conversation. There are many wars, large and small going on around the world, but it is the Israeli/Hamas war that is using American bombs and other weapons to kill civilians, so any American has a right to object. The October 7th atrocities are certainly horrific, but the Israeli’s and the Palestinian Arabs are engaged in a forever war in which the first violent attacks against the Jews took place in Hebron in 1928 as a result of resistance to Jewish immigration and land acquisition. I think of the October 7th attack as the third Intifada, the first Intifada being the Intifada of stones, the second the Intifada of suicide bombs and the third an actual military attack on civilians. That in no way justifies it, but it is all part of a cycle of violence brought about by the decision of the early Zionists in the 1890’s to locate their “Jewish Homeland” in a place which was already populated, where the population at that time was 94% Arab. There was no way that was going to end well, and we have seen how it has unfolded. Thanks for your comment.
Israel is here to stay. The fact that you and some mutants in Iran and other Islamists don't agree doesn't change anything. Why is it that refugees from every war can adjust to a new life and get on with it, but somehow the Palestinians sit around whining because their grandfathers were displaced 80 years ago while they proclaim that only the destruction of Israel and it's population can lead them to a good life? Meanwhile Israelis keep building a better and better country. You might as well try to destroy America and give it back to the Indians.
The 94% Arab population is an interesting way to put that - since the population was near zero in the vast majority of the originally PURCHASED Jewish settlers land. And once established by International Law in 1957, Israel as a nation has never invaded another nation, even in your comment you acknowledge each of the aggression was towards Israel and your only complaint seems to be with how Israel chooses to defend itself. In reading this far into the thread (chronologically) not once have you implied that had Israel not been attacked, there would be no need (norANY evidence to suggest) Israel would have initiated violence towards it's neighbors.
Thanks for responding to my post. I am afraid you are confusing propagandistic slogans “A land without a people for a people without a land” with historical facts. Early Zionists surveyors made clear that almost all the arable farmland already had Arab farmers on it. This did not deter the Zionist project. I would think the occupation of the West Bank and other areas by the Israeli’s during the Six Day War war would constitute both invasion and aggression on the part of Israel and their continued occupation is considered illegal by most nations. I’m sure you are aware that Israel started that war with preemptive strikes against Egyptian forces. While there are plenty of arguments to be made about how endangered Israel was or was not, the idea that they are passive victims at all times during their history is just silly.
When Jews began returning to their historic homeland, they legally purchased nonviable lands from Arabs for what were considered fair pricing. There was little reason for the Arabs to remain as the land had no viable agricultural or economic benefit. Through hard work and innovation, the Jews changed this. The Jews at this time were an extreme minority in this region and had no means by which to occupy or steal this land.
As they gained economic ability they continued to purchase the usable farmland and create settlements for more Jews Tom migrate. Again, records show this was all done legally and voluntarily by all parties.
Yes, Israel conducted a first strike against their aggressive neighbors Egypt and Syria, and later Jordan and Iraq who also joined the military pact entering the war. This came after months of escalation by Egypt (expelling UN and massing troops in Sinai, and overt act of war blockading Israeli shipping lanes). So while the first kinetic strike, it was not the first act of aggression - and I think you know that (war doesn't start when the first bombs drop) but intentionally didn't address it. So yes, when attacked, Israel again won. When you capture land in a defensive war against a neighbor, you are under no obligation to then return that land to the aggressors. FAFO - textbook definition
Thanks for the response to my post. Much of the Arab land purchased by the Zionist project was purchased from absentee Arab landlords, which, while legal in most cases created tremendous hardship and anger among the displace Arab tenant farmers. There was so much resentment about Jewish immigration and land acquisition, that deadly violence broke out fairly early, the Hebron riots of 1928 for instance and the very violent Arab revolt of 1936, which was crushed by the British military. The idea that Jewish immigration and land purchase was tidy and legal is simply silly.
There is still disagreement today about whether or not the 1967 war was avoidable or not, but no disagreement that it allowed for a huge Israeli land grab in the occupation of the territories, an occupation considered illegal in most of the world. There are no civil rights for Arabs living in the West Bank today and there have been none for more than 60 years. The Israeli high command made a decision to begin that war, the shooting war for its own reasons. Until that point it was a diplomatic war or economic war. Israel has never simply annexed the West Bank, making it a legitimate part of Israel, because that would make the resulting “greater Israel” a land with an Arab majority population, and then it could no longer be both a Jewish state and a democracy.
I am talking about a bigger conversation. You, like the News Media and Social Media, only focus on Israel and the Jews. Like BLM focusing on black folks being killed by the Police across the USA and ignoring the nearly 1,000 killed in Chicago in one year, mainly by other blacks in gang violence. Just Chicago! So the activists say let's focus on Police and forget the true nature of gun violence in the black community. Pareto is the way to view how to best focus on problems.
Thanks for the reply to my post. I am afraid that police violence and urban black on black violence are two different subjects with different causes and very different circumstances. The only commonality is that black people are dead. It would be as if you compared deadly police violence with black deaths from sickle cell anemia, both are tragic, but vastly different subjects. In the case of the Arab/Israeli, conflict comparing other issues in other parts of the world simply to be able to say "Yeah, but what about...?" is intellectually lazy, to say the least.
For me, it's about focus. I understand your position. Focus on Israel and nothing else in this discussion. However, there are much bigger problems in the world in my opinion and I view the world problems via the lens of Pareto. Thank you for your responses. I consider, how are most people being killed in the world? There are many problems that re much larger than this one. I also see the Iranian influence in the Israeli conflict as they have used HAMAS and Hezbollah as puppets to stir the pot. I also know Israel has its own set of problems dealing with the so-called Palestinians. Remember when they were first popularly called Palestinians? Walter Conkrite in the 67 war. At that time, they were mostly Jordanians and trans Jordanians who did not support the Hashemite kingdom now ruling Jordan, so they weren't wanted. Of course many others have came into what is know as Gaza and the West Bank, but the Jordanians and Egyptians will not allow them in to their countries for good reason. It is a very difficult situation and I am glad it isn't in the US.
Thanks for the reply. With respect, it seems to me that thinking of these things in terms of Pareto actually removes focus in this instance. Whether these people are called Palestinians or not does not change their specific history, or the specific events that brought the conflict in the first place, it just dissipates the narrative. Of course there are different and deadlier conflicts in the world and other conflicts that cause more human suffering. Of course Iranian involvement in the current crisis contributes, but not to what is (to me) the essential arc of this conflict which begins with the Zionist project in the late 19th century. This particular conflict absorbs a tremendous amount of American tax money and as an American it is relevant to me. It is also a conflict in a part of the world in which I have had a lot of personal experience. But I take your point and I appreciate you sharing your thinking with me.
SMH, Robert still with the propaganda. Trying to reshape the message to a false narrative. Especially, when it comes to history of the Levant. Somehow in your narrative Jews living in the land of Israel is a recent phenomenon. Of course, that is straight out of Hamas's and Iran's propaganda playbook. You do Goebbels proud. Keep repeating the big lie. You are extremely partisan while trying to act unbiased.
I appreciate your honesty but again people’s critical thinking skills are none existent. Let’s say the rocket was a failed iron dome ( which I don’t believe) then why was the iron dome fired? For the hell of it or because Hezbollah was shooting rockets into Israel. If they didn’t shot missiles into Israel then the iron dome would have not been fired and no one would be hurt. But like the left and Muslims they feel like to blame the victim and not accept the root cause of the problem.
But also appreciate your passion in getting mad at the Hizbullah trying to pin this on Israel and hoping (not without evidence) that so many gullible souls in the west will believe their lies.
(written probably 20 minutes from where you stay in the middle of Sydney CBD. Have a good flight home dear man)
From the IDF Spokesperson, according to preliminary analysis the missile is likely the Iranian Falaq-1, used by Hezbollah.
Hezbollah didn't deny in their response to this attack that they launched anything, just that they struck this area.
They did however state to have fired a Falaq-1 at a military installation that is in that general area, within the large barrage they fired in response to several commanders being killed.
Hezbollah vehemently denies having fired at this village likely because it is a village in the occupied and annexed part of the golan with a history of the people there being loyal to Syria to whom their village belonged before. Had it been any other soccer field in any other village they wouldn't have denied anything.
The missile fired wasn't intercepted and the reasons to why are still being looked into, but by the early reports it seems that according to where it was fired from, it was fired towards a region with less coverage as the IDF admitted they did not anticipate that region being targeted (likely due to the aforementioned historic issues).
The alarm did sound off, but given the proximity of the launch area (estimated to be near the Lebanese town of Shebaa, approx. 13km away) the people who did not receive any instructions to be ready, couldn't seek shelter in time.
The time to evacuate is 15 seconds in the farther reaches of the Golan heights. This was practically a stone throw away.
Thank you Ryan. The public discourse desperately needs more evidence based level headed journalism like yours. YouTube needs some serious competition, too.
We need more voices like yours to combat all the lies and misinformation floating around the internet these days. It's the wild west out here, thank you Ryan.
A bit of a nitpick about what Majdal Shams is - it's not a "neighborhood", but a town. It's not in a densely populated area, it's halfway up Mount Hermon. Specifically, it's a Druze town. I've seen headlines referring to it as a town in the "occupied Golan heights", which is technically correct but incredibly misleading - Majdal Shams has been a Druze town since 1595. But in 2006 they hit Shfar'am - proper Muslim city - so I guess it's a known bug with inshallah-guided munitions.
Oh geezus! You sound like an Christian evangelical nutcase here supporting Israeli genocide! Ryan, you are too smart to rant about such things. Cut it the fuck out and stick to the facts! (And maybe you should visit the Middle East and talk to ALL of the players - something that journalists are supposed to do. - and that would include Hizballah!)
Maybe you should? I don't think you have ever been to Israel. I doubt you'll even be able find it on a map.
He IS sticking to facts and the fact is Israel is beheld to a standard no other army has ever been held to while its adversaries fire indiscriminately into civilian population while crying murder.
I agree with the facts that Ryan presented. Even if this war crime had been caused by Israeli Air Defense - it would have been against an incoming enemy rocket - which still puts the blame on the original attacker. But I disagree with Ryan's Bible-thumping. It is unprofessional and makes him look like a raving idiot. I haven't been to Israel because the hoops one has to jump through to do journalism there are too difficult for me to navigate right now. The Israeli government really restricts journalism - just google their press office. On talking to Israel - yes - Ryan should definitely be talking to the Israelis. Absolutely! But he should also be talking to the Palestinians, the Saudis, the Iranians and everyone else involved in the conflict. As for me, yes, I have friends in Tel Aviv and I do worry about them.
What evidence do you have that Israel is committing genocide? Was it the fact that Israel told the Palestinian civilians exactly where they were going to invade 3 weeks before they invaded in order to allow the civilians to evacuate? Maybe it was the leaflets they drop warning civilians of impending attacks so they can flee?
I've heard a lot of people claim that Israel is committing genocide, but I haven't seen anyone put forth evidence to support this claim.
These idiots throw around the word "genocide" much too easily. Apparently all this "genocide" from Israel has resulted in a rapidly growing number of Gazans. What BS! That also includes the ICC. That is a kangaroo court staffed with biased people from South Africa and Lebanon, 2 countries with very little integrity.
What evidence do I have that Israel is committing genocide? 1. I have paid attention to the news. 2. I know several Israelis who have been very honest with me about their intentions of "cleansing" Palestinians (which they call "Arabs")- not just from Gaza and the West Bank, but much further. 2. I have been in an area when a genocide was going on (Guatemala - where the Israelis were assisting it) and what i see from Gaza fits the bill. and most importantly, the ICC has opened a genocide trial against the Israeli High Command (also against the Hamas leadership). Evidentially, you haven;'t followed the ICC proceedings. I recommend you do that today.
was asking for a single example of Israeli genocide. You give me:
1. Your opinion.
2. Several Israelis who, trust me bro, want genocide. By the way, Palestinians ARE Arabs.
3. You've traveled to Guatemala.
4. Hamas supporters in the ICC have brought politically motivated charges.
Here's the thing. Genocide has a specific definition. It is (paraphrased) the targeting of a racial or ethnic group with the intent to exterminate them entirely.
Nothing you've listed is evidence of genocide. In fact none of the actions they've been taking even qualify as a war crime, let alone genocide.
I follow the news too, and much of the reporting has been either completely false or half truths. You can tell by using your reason. Let's take the 30,000 casualties. First, this number is commonly reported but this number comes from HAMAS and has not been verified. So not the most reliable source.
Hamas is being intentionally misleading. For example, do you know what hasn't been reported? The number of Hamas casualties. They include their fighters in the total number of casualties in order to make it seem like Israel is killing civilians en masse.
Another misleading statistic is the number of women and children killed by the Israelis. If those numbers were accurate, Israel would have to be deliberately targeting women and trying to miss Hamas fighters shooting at them. It's literally impossible for these numbers to be accurate.
Another way that Hamas plays with the truth is with the statistic of children killed. Hamas recruits heavily among young boys, as young as age 12. They are poorly trained and sent out to fight the Israelis where they are killed. Then they are reported as children killed by Israel.
Anyone who takes the word of Hamas over the word of the Israelis is biased against Israel. Israel has a free press with an antagonistic relationship with the government. Hamas has a history of lying every time they open their mouth. To even consider them to be equally reliable is irrational.
Thank you Ray for some sanity. I get nauseous listening to western people who talk like they are lawyers representing barbaric Islamists. There is such a thing as right and wrong and acting like Islamic terrorism is justified while Israeli defense isn't is shameful nonsense.
What is grotesque about your comment is that you are using rhetorical nit-picking regarding what is and is not genocide, while dancing around the death what is now reported to be 39,000 people. The Hamas figures (as you probably know) are widely accepted by the world press because Hamas figures have been shown to be accurate in the past. The IDF generally agrees with it. What the percentage of the dead may or may not be Hamas fighters does not make them less dead. The number is still an appalling 39,000. Last time I looked, Israeli’s considered IDF soldiers killed in battle to be worth of mourning. You have no idea how many women or children were killed, and you are dancing around the high numbers with rhetorical nonsense. A dead 12 year old is still 12 years old whether he or she has a rifle or not. Israel has not denied the casualty reports as far as I know, they just repeatedly point out that the numbers are coming from Hamas, which we all already know. Israel has harassed any journalists or academics in Israel which the government feels are sympathetic to Palestinians and of course will not allow western journalists into Gaza. This is not a “free press”. Your argument is specious.
The truth is nobody knows how accurate the casualty numbers are. It's obvious that reports those numbers then says that 75% are women and children. Basically, the 75% number is the population breakdown. So you get a non-verifiable number of casualties with a normal population breakdown. Logic something anybody could apply is that the IDF is targeting specifically Hamas and other militia fighters. We know for a fact because it's been reported by Hamas's own approved press reports that they have been in fire fights with the IDF. We also know that Hamas and other militias are almost exclusively male. Thus logic would certainly give us that the number of causalities would be more heavily skewed toward male adult deaths being higher than 25%. So Israel claims that 14,000 combatants have been killed. If you accept Hamas's numbers than you have to accept Israel's number as having the same validity. Which is basically a 36% of those killed are combatants and unfortunately the rest are collateral. We may never know the true numbers but anybody who has seen urban combat casualty numbers will tell you the ratio of combatants to civilians is quite low. Lower than any of the other conflicts in region. Nobody likes civilians deaths innocent or not. Though Hamas seems to think they are all martyrs serving the cause. The Hamas supporters make many claims mostly from the same playbook. Most of which without any verifiability. You can argue anything when you don't have to rely on facts and don't quote your sources. We all know that Oct. 7th happened in all it's brutal detail. A modern day pogrom. We all know that Hamas prepared for this conflict building 100's of miles of tunnels and laying in supplies for themselves and putting their tunnels under civilian infrastructure. RJ your argument is just as specious and made up of just as much rhetorical non-sense. Unfortunately, it's people like you that have made this and other conflicts in the region so horrible by basically rubber stamping and defending the martyrdom and by whatever means necessary terrorism being practiced.
By the way, your statement that a dead 12 year old is a dead 12 year old whether they have a rifle or not is indicative of your irrationality. Of course it matters, for two reasons. One, Israel has the right to shoot someone who shoots at them even if it's a 12 year old. Secondly, and more importantly, the people who would use children as cannon fodder are despicable and deserve to die.
You know what's grotesque about your argument? You blame Israel for Hamas's actions. Hamas started this. Hamas has been launching thousands of rockets from Gaza into Israel per year since the mid 2000"s. They have been committing atrocities against both Israelis and their own people for more than two decades. Hamas has repeatedly avowed their commitment to genocide.
Israel, on the other hand, has taken actions to limit the deaths of Gazan civilians. They put the lives of their soldiers at risk to limit Gazan civilian casualties. But they get no credit for it. Meanwhile, Hamas is doing everything they can to get Gazan civilians killed. They wear civilian clothes and launch attacks from civilian crowds. They hide weapons stockpiles in hospitals, schools, mosques. They use ambulances as battlefield taxis. They disguise themselves as press to carry out ambushes. They control the UNWRA. They use journalists as cover. They even had an Al Jezeera journalist holding one of the recently rescued hostages in their apartment.
Do you agree that Israel has the right to defend themselves? Do you agree that removing Hamas from power is good for both Israel and Gaza? How is Israel supposed to remove Hamas? Send a letter?
So, 39,000 is too manyr? How many is the correct number? In my opinion, the correct number is as few as possible while still accomplishing the goal.
If Mexico had sent a bunch of people into the US and murdered 1500 people, do you think we have the right to do something about it?
Thanks for your response. I think you are missing my point. This conflict predates the current war by many, many decades. There is a very long list of actions taken by the original Zionists, pre-1948 Palestinian Jews and the Israeli’s which contributed to the conflict as we understand it today. Hamas did not start the conflict. Moreover, this is not a conflict between equivalent powers, and much of the Palestinian terrorist response to Israeli aggression has been typical of asymmetrical fights. The pre-48 Jews, for instance, used terrorist bombings (like the King David Hotel bombing) assassinations and kidnappings against the British because the British had the superior military power and the Jew did not. This does not make Hamas right, or justify the atrocities of October 7th, but it does help to put them in context. The Jewish terrorists of the pre-48 fight against Britain also wore civilian clothes, hid weapons among civilians and many of the other behaviors you assign to Hamas, because it was an asymmetric fight, as it is with Hamas. Of course Israel has a right to defend itself, but it also has a responsibility to recognize international law and proportionality in military conflicts, which it has not done for the most part. And of course removing Hamas would be better for both sides, but it was Israel who nurtured and expedited funding for Hamas in the first place. Getting rid of Hamas is going to require diplomatic work and compromise, eventually. In the meantime, the Israeli Gaza war is failing and of course 39,000 Palestinian dead is too many, this is why the world has turned against Israel and its military action. If Mexico sent soldiers into the US and killed 1200 people (which is the number of Israeli dead from October 7th, as revised down by the IDF) we would certainly respond, but I have a hard time imagining we would use saturation bombing and kill 39,000 Mexicans. Thanks again for taking the time to respond.
Aehm ... you do realise that Ryan did multiply tours in the Middle East, is a retired First Sergeant, speaks Arabic and has done peace-keeping on the Sinai Peninsula? Also, that he just said that he has read the Quran?
Wouldn't it be nice if journalist reported the news instead of giving their opinions. Unfortunately, so called journalist like Jeremy have forgotten about being unbiased. Ryan is not trying to be a journalist as far as I can tell he doesn't claim to be. While Jeremy pretends to be a journalist while be just another Social Justice Lefty (See Silver Report) who forgot the basic tenets of journalism if he ever learned them. I'm a liberal but guys like Jeremy have become the norm in Journalism on both sides of the spectrum. Objectivity goes out the window. Anyone that calls US forces Israeli proxies is just not sane. Useful idiots like him are commonly calling themselves unbiased these days. It's sad and totally distorts the picture.
Yes, Ryan was part of US forces there - and he still seems to be part of them. If he wants to do journalism - he needs to break away and talk to other people. US forces in the Middle East are essentially Israeli proxies. We have a tail wagging the dog scene here.
Ryan,
You forget about the Muslim practice of Taqiyyah. This is the Muslim belief that you can lie to infidels as long as it furthers the advancement of Islam. His opinion is probably that by lying on social media is making his bridge a 4 lane highway.
Yep, Islam ... the religion of peace and tolerance. At least that is what they tell us.
It doesn’t call itself a religion. It is a way of life, in every aspect. It’s clerics ARE the government. They are the judges in all things. That’s where the West doesn't get it. In Islam, it is impossible to have a separation of faith and government. The faith is everything and controls everything.
As far as I can tell, "taqiyyah" refers only to lying to avoid being persecuted. In other words, they believe that they can say that they are not Muslims if they are threatened with being killed. It has nothing to do with general deception.
Good post, Ryan and you are probably correct in your analysis. I am a little uncomfortable with your description of Israeli bombing in Gaza as “precision”. I think we are looking at about 30,000 dead people as a result of that “precision” and we also have the opinion of the International Court of Justice regarding Israel’s prosecution of this war. Because I have spent a lot of time in Islamic nations, I appreciate and have admired your understanding of Arabic and what is (to me) a fairly humanistic approach to these complex conflicts, especially given your own combat experience in the region.
But in many ways, Israel is reaping the harvest of its own history in this conflict and this war is a deeply ugly one—and I include in that the terrible events of October 7th. I think you work hard and generally successfully to avoid partisan opinions or the appearance of bias, and good on you for that. But I think perhaps you let your passions get the better of you here. But don’t let my opinion slow you down, keep up the good work.
1. When Hamas hides inside civilian buildings including schools and hospitals 30K is a very good number.
2. Hamas has "no militants", so any fighting man can just throw the AK and since their uniforms are specifically for propaganda that man is now "a civilian".
3. The UN counts 18 year olds as children. What makes you think Hamas don't "hire" at 16?
4. The court is led by a Lebanese man while Lebanon is a state actively fighting Israel. You'd think they'd try and at least act impartial. Nobody else available?
5. All things considered the numbers still rely on the Hamas controlled Health ministry. Guess what their agenda is?
Anyway it's always been like this. The temple is always in danger since the 1920s and Israel has always been accused of genocide. The temple still stands and Palestinians somehow still multiply. So long as Israel is the world's distraction the game will go on.
I completely agree with you. Hamas is using the innocent Palestinians as human shields to score a Vietnam War-style propaganda victory on Israel. Remember, the Tet Offensive was a military disaster for the Viet Cong, but the US lost the will to fight despite being, for the first time, at the cusp of victory. IMO, that is what Hamas is going for. Their country's women and men be damned.
Your leftist propaganda has been exposed so obviously and blantaly. You can fool me once but not twice. As long as your 3 million border proxies do not vote, dems will lose badly in 2024. You gonna come back and play ?😅
As far as I know, I made no statements that were leftist or relating to the Democratic party. It is hard to argue that a bombing campaign that killed 30,000 people lacked precision, or that Israel's history of refusing to engage with or solve the problem of the hostile Palestinian population living on the land intended as a Jewish homeland has caused them severe problems from the first Arab riots or 1928 until today. You might argue about who is at fault or who caused what, but you can't argue with simple facts like these.
You really need to go to another forum to spill your propaganda. I'm not buying anything you stated. IDF bombing campaigns have been surgically performed with advanced notice and well documented. Did you count the bodies yourself? However, I have seen the horrific imagery of innocent Israelis savagely unalived, raped and children beheaded on October 7th. Would you not defend or avenge your family if this happened to you?
The sad thing about your viewpoint, is that in your relentless Israeli boosterism, the humanity and suffering of the Palestinians is entirely erased, and it is real human suffering. In the real world, both populations are suffering and both are suffering for intertwined and complicated historical reasons. A Palestinian journalist once said to me “This is not a conflict between right and wrong, it is a conflict between two rights”. There is plenty of bloodshed, cruelty and blame to go around.
Oct 7th. Do not forget. Israeli-Saudi peace deal was underway in 2023. They were trying, however Iran had a different opinion.
arguing that it wasn't "precise" because 30k civilians died over the grand total of probably hundreds of thousands, or at least tens of thousands of strikes by the IDF, *(who btw: DONT HAVE TO DO THIS, but every time they bomb targets, near civilians:, before they strike, they send BLANKET text messages telling people "GET OUT of the building" and it'll be bombed in "X" amount of time!", then they do a "roof knock". with a very light explosive, to let people know they aren't making empty threats, and then when those very civilians try to leave, Hamas SHOOTS at those civilians for attempting to leave the site! So civilian casualties are unavoidable if you want to rid the world of the bile and cancer that is "Hamas!" i mean, C'mon this is the group that MURDERED it's PALESTINIAN OPPOSITION GROUP RIGHT AFTER THEY WERE ELECTED TO POWER! So, in light of all those FACTS, it's just my opinion, but the civilian deaths are 90% a direct result of the actions of HAMAS! I've seen videos on reddit of over 250 Civilians trying to leave a hospital in broad daylight as a GIANT GROUP, and suddenly Hamas gunmen start shooting 1 or 2 people in the front of the group, so to that group of civilians the safest place around is to be off the street and pray the building doesn't come down on them! So they're FORCED to run right back into the building and await they're injuries or death! So how is that Israel's fault? When they are trying EVERYTHING THEY CAN to get the civilians away from Hamas?. From your point of view, Israel should just not fight back, and allow Hamas to do whatever it wants to it's people? How can you sit there and say something so asenine and not "thought out" and say, "oh the IDF killed 30k civilians!".... yet MOST of these dead civilians would NEVER HAVE DIED IF HAMAS WOULD JUST LET THEM GET TO SAFETY?!?! (some are going to be accidental as well, which IDF has taken responsibility for in those cases, because sadly, thats a fact of Warfare! But to call someone else out as a "Israeli booster" when you do the same for the Hamas and IRAN side! Defending Hamas or even if your just condemning Israel for their tactics,... your whole argument it makes no logical sense because the side your defending is even WORSE than the actions of the side your condemning! So i hope you do your research before you claim innocents were murdered, because they weren't murdered they were hoistages first and became cuaght in a war they had nothing to do with until someone FORCED THEM to be the sandbags that Hamas would hide behind!
I'm not American thus don't care for any arbitrary arm/leg selections. For a tight space from where Hamas keeps firing indiscriminately at civilians the fact that Israel has ANY precision is automatically elevated to surgical grade.
Israel has a long history of giving the Arabs a hand and they have never missed a chance to slap it back. UN divided, they attacked and lost . They kept fighting, they lost more. 6 day war, again. Peace with Egypt, peace with Jordan, Oslo agreements? Hebron?
Hamas had a very stable little space financed by EU and US( and a bit by oil Sheiks). They just had to accept Israel's existence so they can start talking things through. Birth rate was astronomical and life expectancy was higher than at least 10 American states(76.5ys). All the money went to building rat caves and tube rockets.
Today there are 9 million people in Israel and there was room for everyone in 1928. But no, mine mine mine. So they got stuck with jews from Europe, Russian empire and Almost every Muslim state(who were deported there...). Also Ethiopians.
Jews have nowhere else to go but Palestinians, Syrians, Jordanians? These are the colonial constructs. And once they love their children more than they hate Jews then things will change.
I’m afraid your deeply myopic view of history is making it difficult for you to grasp what is happening in this war. An excellent reference book explaining the history of the conflict is the widely-used college text book “Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict, A History with Documents, 10th edition” by Charles D. Smith. The Amazon blurb reads “The narrative is supported by more than 40 primary documents that highlight perspectives from all sides of the struggle. Throughout the book, the author examines how underlying issues, group motives, religious and cross-cultural clashes, diplomacy and imperialism, and the arrival of the modern era shaped this volatile region. Maps, photographs, chronologies, public opinion polls, and discussion questions help facilitate student understanding. A fully updated final chapter makes this the most current history of the topic.” Of course there are many other books on the subject, but this one is particularly detailed and comprehensive in its treatment and perhaps you would find it helpful.
Thanks for the considered reply, but I have no desire to try to re-litigate a complex and disputed history which goes back to the 1890's and contains a world of sorrow, war and loss. It is clear where your sympathies lie and you are certainly entitled to them.
So, you fired accusations and your reply is "You pro Israel, ain't gonna argue bye". Good talk!
It's more of something I have encountered quite a bit. The person throws the accusation. It lands. The accusation is examined and quickly found to be nonsense. Facts and context are gathered, and a response is put together to refute the accusation. The second the other person hears that a response is coming, but before they hear anything, they say "You know, I know you believe everything you hear from the side I just smeared. You'll never convince me that killing defenseless children is wrong, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. You have your beliefs, I have mine. But I certainly believe in your right to speak." (silently thinking "As in a right to speak to no one who's permitted to listen until that wonderful day comes when you are not permitted to speak at all!")
If you think about it, it's a verbal trick that mirrors the philosophy of how terrorists operate. Kill 1,200 innocent people. The second the Israelis start to respond we hear, "You know, I think we need to take a pause in the name of peace. We know you want to kill innocent children, and we don't agree with you. So if you'll call a halt to your planned genocide we can peacefully negotiate through 3rd Parties because we wouldn't be caught dead actually talking with you. We'll try to peacefully come to an agreement while we rearm to kill another ...I mean while we pass out food to the helpless."
That's why the answer to these liars should always be solve the problem. Not worry about the feelings of those who would spit on your dead body.
You know, the facts and accusations relating to this conflict go back a long time and reactions generally break down along one's personal view of the Israeli or Palestinian position. I have lived in Israel with my family and I have done a lot of historical work about the conflict. It is very complicated and you do it no justice with the kind of ham handed statement above. But thanks for replying to my post.
Yes, thank you for supporting my point. But no, I'm not beneath your superior intellect and sophistication anymore than the other commentator was--but you be you. On a side note, I'm guessing you do this with other issues is well--but this is your primary issue? Anyway, have a good rest of your day.
Considering that at least half of the 30,000 casualties are Hamas militants, and Hamas hides among civilians on purpose, I'd say that Israel's precision targeting is quite precise.
Israel has shown itself to be quite adept at targeted killings in the past. One car, one rocket, one terrorist leader dead. In the case of Gaza, they elected to use mass bombing which not only killed 30,000 people, but badly damaged Israel's reputation in the world, especially among young American Jews, and of course produced condemnation by the International Court of Justice and other international bodies.
Not in any way true. Gaza is a densely populated urban area. If Israel had conducted mass bombings, the casualty count would be far higher.
Think about it this way. More than half of the deaths are Hamas fighters who are deliberately hiding among civilians. If Israel were actually bombing indiscriminately, the casualty count would be higher and the civilian to militant ratio would be a lot more skewed towards civilians.
This is really becoming silly. You have no more idea than I do how many of the Palestinians killed in the bombing are Hamas fighters. We are now up to 39,000 dead, according to the New York Times. Even president Biden referred to the bombing as indiscriminate. There is a simple and clear reason how Isreali's squandered the enormous sympathy the world at large felt for them after the October 7th terrorist attack and that is the astonishingly brutal bombing of Gaza. We also know the Israeli media does not show their public the footage the rest of us have seen of dead children, grieving mothers and massive urban destruction of homes and infrastructure, including hospitals, schools and universities.
39000 that is quoted from Hamas health minister. The same people who said that the rocket that crashed into the parking lot in October that they said killed 500people (oh actually 485was the revised number) and after several news reports had to correct their massive mistake of listening to hamas and claim theirs is no way there could of been that many dead from a failed Islamic jihad rocket. I am skeptical about both Israel and Hamas numbers. (More hamass number because driving the number up is great for them). But there have been text from sinwar (from the WSJ) who is very happy with all the death of his people. This war has been very low on the combatant vs civilians ratio (look up John Spencer for modern urban warfare institute). And so indiscriminate bombing comment. Biden press secretary said a day later they the us does not see any evidence in indiscriminate bombing. Now with all this said are there Israelis who would love nothing more to do indiscriminate bombing wipe the Palestinians off the map. Of course. But to me the action take so far are not indicative of that. Many people say that if Israel wanted to wipe out Gaza they sure have the man power and weapons to do so but that has not happened.
I was with you, way back when you said you wouldn't respond. But, now that you have...
I am an ardent Zionist, and yet I do mourn all of the Palestinian losses. I know that feeling of empathy is pretty much absent among my co-horts, but I do not blame them for that. They had war brought upon them (yet again).
And there may be some instances where the IDF has committed war crimes, but we'll have to allow time for "due process" investigations, etc. From the evidence we've seen so far, overall, with the possibility of some notable exceptions, Israel's war against terrorist Hamas has been conducted within the bounds of international law.
I think you had a much stronger argument regarding Israel's utterly failure in the political realm, which not only allowed Palestinian statelessness and misery to continue, but actually made the status quo devolve even further. But, an honest appraisal of political activity would also compel us to include corrupt Palestinian, Islamic and pan-Arabic "leadership", as we apportion blame for political failure.
In short, I agreed with you, in that this war has many fathers, all worthy of a portion of blame. Pretending that Israel is more blameworthy can only be upheld by ignoring plenty of other evidence.
Now that was an excellent, well thought out comment. In my humble opinion.
As far as the political failure--I don't know what you mean? Do you mean coming up with viable solutions within Israel and getting a buy-in from the relevant players--even those who consider peace to be something achieved only when every last Israeli Jew is dead? Or Israel's failure with the public relations effort. Hard to succeed when most of the Western media is just a few years removed from those American college protesters chanting "From the River to the Sea." Or when International bodies are controlled by the other side. But what do you mean. What is the solution that you would propose? Not being sarcastic--just asking.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment. Whether the war was "brought upon them (yet again)" depends on where you start the clock. This conflict did not start on October 7th. But I appreciate your willingness to consider other opinions.
Hamas keeps civilians as human shields. IDF telegraphs it's strikes days ahead with texts, leaflets and by megaphone. Why are there Palestinians still at strike center? It's all documented.
Estimates of the total number of deaths in the Syrian Civil War, by various war monitors, range between 580,000 as of May 2021, and approximately 617,910 as of March 2024. Yet the world focuses on Israel. I visited the Gaza region several weeks ago and what Hamas did to the Israelis that day at a concert is beyond forgiveness. Burning people in their cars and raping women and taking hostages. You can't blame that on the Israelis.
The Syrian Civil War has nothing to do with this conversation. There are many wars, large and small going on around the world, but it is the Israeli/Hamas war that is using American bombs and other weapons to kill civilians, so any American has a right to object. The October 7th atrocities are certainly horrific, but the Israeli’s and the Palestinian Arabs are engaged in a forever war in which the first violent attacks against the Jews took place in Hebron in 1928 as a result of resistance to Jewish immigration and land acquisition. I think of the October 7th attack as the third Intifada, the first Intifada being the Intifada of stones, the second the Intifada of suicide bombs and the third an actual military attack on civilians. That in no way justifies it, but it is all part of a cycle of violence brought about by the decision of the early Zionists in the 1890’s to locate their “Jewish Homeland” in a place which was already populated, where the population at that time was 94% Arab. There was no way that was going to end well, and we have seen how it has unfolded. Thanks for your comment.
Israel is here to stay. The fact that you and some mutants in Iran and other Islamists don't agree doesn't change anything. Why is it that refugees from every war can adjust to a new life and get on with it, but somehow the Palestinians sit around whining because their grandfathers were displaced 80 years ago while they proclaim that only the destruction of Israel and it's population can lead them to a good life? Meanwhile Israelis keep building a better and better country. You might as well try to destroy America and give it back to the Indians.
The 94% Arab population is an interesting way to put that - since the population was near zero in the vast majority of the originally PURCHASED Jewish settlers land. And once established by International Law in 1957, Israel as a nation has never invaded another nation, even in your comment you acknowledge each of the aggression was towards Israel and your only complaint seems to be with how Israel chooses to defend itself. In reading this far into the thread (chronologically) not once have you implied that had Israel not been attacked, there would be no need (norANY evidence to suggest) Israel would have initiated violence towards it's neighbors.
Thanks for responding to my post. I am afraid you are confusing propagandistic slogans “A land without a people for a people without a land” with historical facts. Early Zionists surveyors made clear that almost all the arable farmland already had Arab farmers on it. This did not deter the Zionist project. I would think the occupation of the West Bank and other areas by the Israeli’s during the Six Day War war would constitute both invasion and aggression on the part of Israel and their continued occupation is considered illegal by most nations. I’m sure you are aware that Israel started that war with preemptive strikes against Egyptian forces. While there are plenty of arguments to be made about how endangered Israel was or was not, the idea that they are passive victims at all times during their history is just silly.
When Jews began returning to their historic homeland, they legally purchased nonviable lands from Arabs for what were considered fair pricing. There was little reason for the Arabs to remain as the land had no viable agricultural or economic benefit. Through hard work and innovation, the Jews changed this. The Jews at this time were an extreme minority in this region and had no means by which to occupy or steal this land.
As they gained economic ability they continued to purchase the usable farmland and create settlements for more Jews Tom migrate. Again, records show this was all done legally and voluntarily by all parties.
Yes, Israel conducted a first strike against their aggressive neighbors Egypt and Syria, and later Jordan and Iraq who also joined the military pact entering the war. This came after months of escalation by Egypt (expelling UN and massing troops in Sinai, and overt act of war blockading Israeli shipping lanes). So while the first kinetic strike, it was not the first act of aggression - and I think you know that (war doesn't start when the first bombs drop) but intentionally didn't address it. So yes, when attacked, Israel again won. When you capture land in a defensive war against a neighbor, you are under no obligation to then return that land to the aggressors. FAFO - textbook definition
Thanks for the response to my post. Much of the Arab land purchased by the Zionist project was purchased from absentee Arab landlords, which, while legal in most cases created tremendous hardship and anger among the displace Arab tenant farmers. There was so much resentment about Jewish immigration and land acquisition, that deadly violence broke out fairly early, the Hebron riots of 1928 for instance and the very violent Arab revolt of 1936, which was crushed by the British military. The idea that Jewish immigration and land purchase was tidy and legal is simply silly.
There is still disagreement today about whether or not the 1967 war was avoidable or not, but no disagreement that it allowed for a huge Israeli land grab in the occupation of the territories, an occupation considered illegal in most of the world. There are no civil rights for Arabs living in the West Bank today and there have been none for more than 60 years. The Israeli high command made a decision to begin that war, the shooting war for its own reasons. Until that point it was a diplomatic war or economic war. Israel has never simply annexed the West Bank, making it a legitimate part of Israel, because that would make the resulting “greater Israel” a land with an Arab majority population, and then it could no longer be both a Jewish state and a democracy.
I am talking about a bigger conversation. You, like the News Media and Social Media, only focus on Israel and the Jews. Like BLM focusing on black folks being killed by the Police across the USA and ignoring the nearly 1,000 killed in Chicago in one year, mainly by other blacks in gang violence. Just Chicago! So the activists say let's focus on Police and forget the true nature of gun violence in the black community. Pareto is the way to view how to best focus on problems.
Thanks for the reply to my post. I am afraid that police violence and urban black on black violence are two different subjects with different causes and very different circumstances. The only commonality is that black people are dead. It would be as if you compared deadly police violence with black deaths from sickle cell anemia, both are tragic, but vastly different subjects. In the case of the Arab/Israeli, conflict comparing other issues in other parts of the world simply to be able to say "Yeah, but what about...?" is intellectually lazy, to say the least.
For me, it's about focus. I understand your position. Focus on Israel and nothing else in this discussion. However, there are much bigger problems in the world in my opinion and I view the world problems via the lens of Pareto. Thank you for your responses. I consider, how are most people being killed in the world? There are many problems that re much larger than this one. I also see the Iranian influence in the Israeli conflict as they have used HAMAS and Hezbollah as puppets to stir the pot. I also know Israel has its own set of problems dealing with the so-called Palestinians. Remember when they were first popularly called Palestinians? Walter Conkrite in the 67 war. At that time, they were mostly Jordanians and trans Jordanians who did not support the Hashemite kingdom now ruling Jordan, so they weren't wanted. Of course many others have came into what is know as Gaza and the West Bank, but the Jordanians and Egyptians will not allow them in to their countries for good reason. It is a very difficult situation and I am glad it isn't in the US.
Thanks for the reply. With respect, it seems to me that thinking of these things in terms of Pareto actually removes focus in this instance. Whether these people are called Palestinians or not does not change their specific history, or the specific events that brought the conflict in the first place, it just dissipates the narrative. Of course there are different and deadlier conflicts in the world and other conflicts that cause more human suffering. Of course Iranian involvement in the current crisis contributes, but not to what is (to me) the essential arc of this conflict which begins with the Zionist project in the late 19th century. This particular conflict absorbs a tremendous amount of American tax money and as an American it is relevant to me. It is also a conflict in a part of the world in which I have had a lot of personal experience. But I take your point and I appreciate you sharing your thinking with me.
SMH, Robert still with the propaganda. Trying to reshape the message to a false narrative. Especially, when it comes to history of the Levant. Somehow in your narrative Jews living in the land of Israel is a recent phenomenon. Of course, that is straight out of Hamas's and Iran's propaganda playbook. You do Goebbels proud. Keep repeating the big lie. You are extremely partisan while trying to act unbiased.
Yes, you see it as well! I was wondering how many others see the dishonesty. How his comments evolved in just hours.
I appreciate your honesty but again people’s critical thinking skills are none existent. Let’s say the rocket was a failed iron dome ( which I don’t believe) then why was the iron dome fired? For the hell of it or because Hezbollah was shooting rockets into Israel. If they didn’t shot missiles into Israel then the iron dome would have not been fired and no one would be hurt. But like the left and Muslims they feel like to blame the victim and not accept the root cause of the problem.
I love your calm factual analysis.
But also appreciate your passion in getting mad at the Hizbullah trying to pin this on Israel and hoping (not without evidence) that so many gullible souls in the west will believe their lies.
(written probably 20 minutes from where you stay in the middle of Sydney CBD. Have a good flight home dear man)
Keep up the good work
From the IDF Spokesperson, according to preliminary analysis the missile is likely the Iranian Falaq-1, used by Hezbollah.
Hezbollah didn't deny in their response to this attack that they launched anything, just that they struck this area.
They did however state to have fired a Falaq-1 at a military installation that is in that general area, within the large barrage they fired in response to several commanders being killed.
Hezbollah vehemently denies having fired at this village likely because it is a village in the occupied and annexed part of the golan with a history of the people there being loyal to Syria to whom their village belonged before. Had it been any other soccer field in any other village they wouldn't have denied anything.
The missile fired wasn't intercepted and the reasons to why are still being looked into, but by the early reports it seems that according to where it was fired from, it was fired towards a region with less coverage as the IDF admitted they did not anticipate that region being targeted (likely due to the aforementioned historic issues).
The alarm did sound off, but given the proximity of the launch area (estimated to be near the Lebanese town of Shebaa, approx. 13km away) the people who did not receive any instructions to be ready, couldn't seek shelter in time.
The time to evacuate is 15 seconds in the farther reaches of the Golan heights. This was practically a stone throw away.
Thank you Ryan. The public discourse desperately needs more evidence based level headed journalism like yours. YouTube needs some serious competition, too.
The internet needs people like you. I became a supporter today!
Hey Ryan, I happen to be in sydney today as well. Buy you a coffee or lunch if you have time before you fly out.
That's really kind of you, but I'm at the Airport waiting for my flight.
Isreal response...I suspect it'll be loud.
Ryan, I love your stuff. With all the things going wrong on YouTube, I hope to see you on Pepperbox.
We need more voices like yours to combat all the lies and misinformation floating around the internet these days. It's the wild west out here, thank you Ryan.
A bit of a nitpick about what Majdal Shams is - it's not a "neighborhood", but a town. It's not in a densely populated area, it's halfway up Mount Hermon. Specifically, it's a Druze town. I've seen headlines referring to it as a town in the "occupied Golan heights", which is technically correct but incredibly misleading - Majdal Shams has been a Druze town since 1595. But in 2006 they hit Shfar'am - proper Muslim city - so I guess it's a known bug with inshallah-guided munitions.
Spot on
Oh geezus! You sound like an Christian evangelical nutcase here supporting Israeli genocide! Ryan, you are too smart to rant about such things. Cut it the fuck out and stick to the facts! (And maybe you should visit the Middle East and talk to ALL of the players - something that journalists are supposed to do. - and that would include Hizballah!)
Maybe you should? I don't think you have ever been to Israel. I doubt you'll even be able find it on a map.
He IS sticking to facts and the fact is Israel is beheld to a standard no other army has ever been held to while its adversaries fire indiscriminately into civilian population while crying murder.
I agree with the facts that Ryan presented. Even if this war crime had been caused by Israeli Air Defense - it would have been against an incoming enemy rocket - which still puts the blame on the original attacker. But I disagree with Ryan's Bible-thumping. It is unprofessional and makes him look like a raving idiot. I haven't been to Israel because the hoops one has to jump through to do journalism there are too difficult for me to navigate right now. The Israeli government really restricts journalism - just google their press office. On talking to Israel - yes - Ryan should definitely be talking to the Israelis. Absolutely! But he should also be talking to the Palestinians, the Saudis, the Iranians and everyone else involved in the conflict. As for me, yes, I have friends in Tel Aviv and I do worry about them.
I would hardly consider warning someone that lying is wrong to be "Bible-thumping"
What evidence do you have that Israel is committing genocide? Was it the fact that Israel told the Palestinian civilians exactly where they were going to invade 3 weeks before they invaded in order to allow the civilians to evacuate? Maybe it was the leaflets they drop warning civilians of impending attacks so they can flee?
I've heard a lot of people claim that Israel is committing genocide, but I haven't seen anyone put forth evidence to support this claim.
These idiots throw around the word "genocide" much too easily. Apparently all this "genocide" from Israel has resulted in a rapidly growing number of Gazans. What BS! That also includes the ICC. That is a kangaroo court staffed with biased people from South Africa and Lebanon, 2 countries with very little integrity.
What evidence do I have that Israel is committing genocide? 1. I have paid attention to the news. 2. I know several Israelis who have been very honest with me about their intentions of "cleansing" Palestinians (which they call "Arabs")- not just from Gaza and the West Bank, but much further. 2. I have been in an area when a genocide was going on (Guatemala - where the Israelis were assisting it) and what i see from Gaza fits the bill. and most importantly, the ICC has opened a genocide trial against the Israeli High Command (also against the Hamas leadership). Evidentially, you haven;'t followed the ICC proceedings. I recommend you do that today.
was asking for a single example of Israeli genocide. You give me:
1. Your opinion.
2. Several Israelis who, trust me bro, want genocide. By the way, Palestinians ARE Arabs.
3. You've traveled to Guatemala.
4. Hamas supporters in the ICC have brought politically motivated charges.
Here's the thing. Genocide has a specific definition. It is (paraphrased) the targeting of a racial or ethnic group with the intent to exterminate them entirely.
Nothing you've listed is evidence of genocide. In fact none of the actions they've been taking even qualify as a war crime, let alone genocide.
I follow the news too, and much of the reporting has been either completely false or half truths. You can tell by using your reason. Let's take the 30,000 casualties. First, this number is commonly reported but this number comes from HAMAS and has not been verified. So not the most reliable source.
Hamas is being intentionally misleading. For example, do you know what hasn't been reported? The number of Hamas casualties. They include their fighters in the total number of casualties in order to make it seem like Israel is killing civilians en masse.
Another misleading statistic is the number of women and children killed by the Israelis. If those numbers were accurate, Israel would have to be deliberately targeting women and trying to miss Hamas fighters shooting at them. It's literally impossible for these numbers to be accurate.
Another way that Hamas plays with the truth is with the statistic of children killed. Hamas recruits heavily among young boys, as young as age 12. They are poorly trained and sent out to fight the Israelis where they are killed. Then they are reported as children killed by Israel.
Anyone who takes the word of Hamas over the word of the Israelis is biased against Israel. Israel has a free press with an antagonistic relationship with the government. Hamas has a history of lying every time they open their mouth. To even consider them to be equally reliable is irrational.
So please, just one example of genocide.
Thank you Ray for some sanity. I get nauseous listening to western people who talk like they are lawyers representing barbaric Islamists. There is such a thing as right and wrong and acting like Islamic terrorism is justified while Israeli defense isn't is shameful nonsense.
What is grotesque about your comment is that you are using rhetorical nit-picking regarding what is and is not genocide, while dancing around the death what is now reported to be 39,000 people. The Hamas figures (as you probably know) are widely accepted by the world press because Hamas figures have been shown to be accurate in the past. The IDF generally agrees with it. What the percentage of the dead may or may not be Hamas fighters does not make them less dead. The number is still an appalling 39,000. Last time I looked, Israeli’s considered IDF soldiers killed in battle to be worth of mourning. You have no idea how many women or children were killed, and you are dancing around the high numbers with rhetorical nonsense. A dead 12 year old is still 12 years old whether he or she has a rifle or not. Israel has not denied the casualty reports as far as I know, they just repeatedly point out that the numbers are coming from Hamas, which we all already know. Israel has harassed any journalists or academics in Israel which the government feels are sympathetic to Palestinians and of course will not allow western journalists into Gaza. This is not a “free press”. Your argument is specious.
The truth is nobody knows how accurate the casualty numbers are. It's obvious that reports those numbers then says that 75% are women and children. Basically, the 75% number is the population breakdown. So you get a non-verifiable number of casualties with a normal population breakdown. Logic something anybody could apply is that the IDF is targeting specifically Hamas and other militia fighters. We know for a fact because it's been reported by Hamas's own approved press reports that they have been in fire fights with the IDF. We also know that Hamas and other militias are almost exclusively male. Thus logic would certainly give us that the number of causalities would be more heavily skewed toward male adult deaths being higher than 25%. So Israel claims that 14,000 combatants have been killed. If you accept Hamas's numbers than you have to accept Israel's number as having the same validity. Which is basically a 36% of those killed are combatants and unfortunately the rest are collateral. We may never know the true numbers but anybody who has seen urban combat casualty numbers will tell you the ratio of combatants to civilians is quite low. Lower than any of the other conflicts in region. Nobody likes civilians deaths innocent or not. Though Hamas seems to think they are all martyrs serving the cause. The Hamas supporters make many claims mostly from the same playbook. Most of which without any verifiability. You can argue anything when you don't have to rely on facts and don't quote your sources. We all know that Oct. 7th happened in all it's brutal detail. A modern day pogrom. We all know that Hamas prepared for this conflict building 100's of miles of tunnels and laying in supplies for themselves and putting their tunnels under civilian infrastructure. RJ your argument is just as specious and made up of just as much rhetorical non-sense. Unfortunately, it's people like you that have made this and other conflicts in the region so horrible by basically rubber stamping and defending the martyrdom and by whatever means necessary terrorism being practiced.
By the way, your statement that a dead 12 year old is a dead 12 year old whether they have a rifle or not is indicative of your irrationality. Of course it matters, for two reasons. One, Israel has the right to shoot someone who shoots at them even if it's a 12 year old. Secondly, and more importantly, the people who would use children as cannon fodder are despicable and deserve to die.
You know what's grotesque about your argument? You blame Israel for Hamas's actions. Hamas started this. Hamas has been launching thousands of rockets from Gaza into Israel per year since the mid 2000"s. They have been committing atrocities against both Israelis and their own people for more than two decades. Hamas has repeatedly avowed their commitment to genocide.
Israel, on the other hand, has taken actions to limit the deaths of Gazan civilians. They put the lives of their soldiers at risk to limit Gazan civilian casualties. But they get no credit for it. Meanwhile, Hamas is doing everything they can to get Gazan civilians killed. They wear civilian clothes and launch attacks from civilian crowds. They hide weapons stockpiles in hospitals, schools, mosques. They use ambulances as battlefield taxis. They disguise themselves as press to carry out ambushes. They control the UNWRA. They use journalists as cover. They even had an Al Jezeera journalist holding one of the recently rescued hostages in their apartment.
Do you agree that Israel has the right to defend themselves? Do you agree that removing Hamas from power is good for both Israel and Gaza? How is Israel supposed to remove Hamas? Send a letter?
So, 39,000 is too manyr? How many is the correct number? In my opinion, the correct number is as few as possible while still accomplishing the goal.
If Mexico had sent a bunch of people into the US and murdered 1500 people, do you think we have the right to do something about it?
Thanks for your response. I think you are missing my point. This conflict predates the current war by many, many decades. There is a very long list of actions taken by the original Zionists, pre-1948 Palestinian Jews and the Israeli’s which contributed to the conflict as we understand it today. Hamas did not start the conflict. Moreover, this is not a conflict between equivalent powers, and much of the Palestinian terrorist response to Israeli aggression has been typical of asymmetrical fights. The pre-48 Jews, for instance, used terrorist bombings (like the King David Hotel bombing) assassinations and kidnappings against the British because the British had the superior military power and the Jew did not. This does not make Hamas right, or justify the atrocities of October 7th, but it does help to put them in context. The Jewish terrorists of the pre-48 fight against Britain also wore civilian clothes, hid weapons among civilians and many of the other behaviors you assign to Hamas, because it was an asymmetric fight, as it is with Hamas. Of course Israel has a right to defend itself, but it also has a responsibility to recognize international law and proportionality in military conflicts, which it has not done for the most part. And of course removing Hamas would be better for both sides, but it was Israel who nurtured and expedited funding for Hamas in the first place. Getting rid of Hamas is going to require diplomatic work and compromise, eventually. In the meantime, the Israeli Gaza war is failing and of course 39,000 Palestinian dead is too many, this is why the world has turned against Israel and its military action. If Mexico sent soldiers into the US and killed 1200 people (which is the number of Israeli dead from October 7th, as revised down by the IDF) we would certainly respond, but I have a hard time imagining we would use saturation bombing and kill 39,000 Mexicans. Thanks again for taking the time to respond.
Aehm ... you do realise that Ryan did multiply tours in the Middle East, is a retired First Sergeant, speaks Arabic and has done peace-keeping on the Sinai Peninsula? Also, that he just said that he has read the Quran?
What are your qualifications to criticise Ryan?
Wouldn't it be nice if journalist reported the news instead of giving their opinions. Unfortunately, so called journalist like Jeremy have forgotten about being unbiased. Ryan is not trying to be a journalist as far as I can tell he doesn't claim to be. While Jeremy pretends to be a journalist while be just another Social Justice Lefty (See Silver Report) who forgot the basic tenets of journalism if he ever learned them. I'm a liberal but guys like Jeremy have become the norm in Journalism on both sides of the spectrum. Objectivity goes out the window. Anyone that calls US forces Israeli proxies is just not sane. Useful idiots like him are commonly calling themselves unbiased these days. It's sad and totally distorts the picture.
Yes, Ryan was part of US forces there - and he still seems to be part of them. If he wants to do journalism - he needs to break away and talk to other people. US forces in the Middle East are essentially Israeli proxies. We have a tail wagging the dog scene here.
Hey Ryan, interceptor is misspelled in the title.