This “dilemma “ that Ukraine has presented is quite something. By disbursing as thinly as practical in built up areas, ”glide bombing” kills modest numbers of Ukrainians but also kills Russians and flattens housing and may set huge fires. Yes Russia can blame Ukraine for everything but that won’t stick. I noticed Ukraine brought a fair amount of SAM able to hit glide bombers, and noticed that Ukraine is steadily losing those assets.
Boy, Ryan, you never cease to be reasonable. I'm thinking "If somebody invaded my country and did the damage the Russians did to the Ukrainians, I might fill my mouth with their gumballs without leaving a note too, if I had a chance to invade them."
But you aren't that guy. Good post and good lesson, thanks for that.
If they had seized military food supplies is there a difference? I mean it could be military food aid to civilians. Receipts seems the only way to go. Living off the land is as old as combat itself. Laws of war is a new concept by comparison.every army through history has looted. Only the well disciplined ones fight it.
Yeah remember when that raf harrier was running out of fuel and landed on a container ship and the ship was able to claim salvage rights of half a million pounds, so spoils in war time ain’t that much of a stretch.
Man... sometimes I wish people could see what I've seen so they would know how they sound. Trust me sir, you don't want to see a world where there are no laws of war. They aren't foolish, they are the only reason humanity still exists. Without discipline to follow the rules of war, war would devolve into mass indiscriminate murder.
I think both sides are held the same standard, Russia just keeps finding new lows. In the big scheme of things, This isn’t that big of a deal. It’s more of a cautionary tale to soldiers and NCOs to be very careful about optics.
I would think that both parties would be held to the same standards, which would mean that the country that bombed hospitals, homes, civilian shopping areas, raped and murdered non-combatants and the one that started this war of aggression would be penalized more than the country that might have done some minor looting.
Our missions always had an NCO tasked with writing checks or handing out cash for damages, post op leader meetings. Those small villages weren't made to withstand our vehicles and antennas. Pretty embarrassing at times!
It was silly for 18 yo soldiers to be videoing it so the Russians can propagandize it, but leaving notes seems a luxury an American unit that has overwhelming force, material, and wealth would do. When the Russians employ glide bombs and artillery to kill tens of thousands of your fellow soldiers, I can understand Ukrainian soldiers acting stupid at certain points.
Thank you Ryan for respecting the AFU by telling it like it is. I stand with Ukraine because Ukraine represents to me Honor and Light (栄光). I believe the AFU is committed to the highest standards. That is the very reason why I hope action is taken when individuals make mistakes, in every case. These guys too, if they did what it looks like they did. However, the punishment should be proportionate to the the violation. Also, I hope there will be understanding that these guys have been defending their people in a war brought by an enemy who has shown us all the most shocking examples of what War Crimes are.
There may be a bit of tit for tat. Have we heard about the Russians looting in captured Ukrainian shops or homes? I can't say that I have, but I'd bet real money the Russians cleaned places out.
My late wife's family were Germans in East Prussia when the Soviet Army came through. Those Russian soldiers made "pillage" sound like a cutesy word. What they couldn't take with them, they destroyed. The German population fled, some of them deluded to think that they were going to get their homes and property back once the German Army counterattacked. So they locked the doors of their houses. Not only didn't they get their homes back, when the war ended, their homes (if not burned down) were in Poland, not Germany.
saw a report that local residents that did not evacuate are looting out all the supermarkets for food , water etc because the stores are shut down. so another possibility is the soldiers grabbed the food,water , pop and gave it to locals?
it won't take long for the stores to be empty. this is russia after all.
Hopefully Ukraine is bright enough to make a public statement that they will pay for what they took but not pay for what Russians loot. High road them.
Never ceases to amaze me the degree to which US military will go to adhere not only to Geneva Convention and other international agreements, but to our moral code.
In my unit when we were in Iraq, we dumped the entire contents of our supply trucks so we could rescue enemy combatants who were left behind by their disintegrating units. My company went without any supply for several days so we could transport those Iraqi soldiers, when it would have been easy and safe to just leave them there in the middle of nowhere to die. We dumped literally over 2 tons of supplies in the Iraqi desert to save them. It was a sight to see and made me proud to be in my unit. The Iraqi soldiers were so grateful they could hardly believe what we were doing. We let them eat all they could from the dumped supplies and take whatever they could carry on the truck as long as everyone somehow fit. I remember how shocked I was to see them ravenously eating even the worst parts of MREs they were so starved.
At a glance, this looks bad, no doubt. Not sure if it helps or hurts that the "bought items" are empty for sorting this out and investigating. It will not make a difference from a social media perspective of react and pass along.
I will say, having a former US NCO cite specific Geneva Convention Articles does make me feel better about the US military.
They’re just preventing disease and vermin from spoiling the food or a missile attack. After seeing the 36th in Bucha Yirpin, getting guys to not refill off the Russian system is going to be hard, there are degrees of looting, I notice all the liquor stores were left untouched, that’s the difference in the two armies period.
well in the next weeks or months that supermarket will be leveled by russian glide bombs anyway.
That is a possibility.
This “dilemma “ that Ukraine has presented is quite something. By disbursing as thinly as practical in built up areas, ”glide bombing” kills modest numbers of Ukrainians but also kills Russians and flattens housing and may set huge fires. Yes Russia can blame Ukraine for everything but that won’t stick. I noticed Ukraine brought a fair amount of SAM able to hit glide bombers, and noticed that Ukraine is steadily losing those assets.
Boy, Ryan, you never cease to be reasonable. I'm thinking "If somebody invaded my country and did the damage the Russians did to the Ukrainians, I might fill my mouth with their gumballs without leaving a note too, if I had a chance to invade them."
But you aren't that guy. Good post and good lesson, thanks for that.
Patch you can’t identify is from S.T.A.L.K.E.R game. It is a Freedom faction patch.
If they had seized military food supplies is there a difference? I mean it could be military food aid to civilians. Receipts seems the only way to go. Living off the land is as old as combat itself. Laws of war is a new concept by comparison.every army through history has looted. Only the well disciplined ones fight it.
Military would be different. That would be spoils of war lawfully captured.
Yeah remember when that raf harrier was running out of fuel and landed on a container ship and the ship was able to claim salvage rights of half a million pounds, so spoils in war time ain’t that much of a stretch.
Lawfully captured… in war… that is just a glaring contradiction in terms…. Laws on a battlefield… that’s just foolishness
Man... sometimes I wish people could see what I've seen so they would know how they sound. Trust me sir, you don't want to see a world where there are no laws of war. They aren't foolish, they are the only reason humanity still exists. Without discipline to follow the rules of war, war would devolve into mass indiscriminate murder.
Plus I’m assuming that Ukraine will be held to higher standards internationally than the russians?
I think both sides are held the same standard, Russia just keeps finding new lows. In the big scheme of things, This isn’t that big of a deal. It’s more of a cautionary tale to soldiers and NCOs to be very careful about optics.
I would think that both parties would be held to the same standards, which would mean that the country that bombed hospitals, homes, civilian shopping areas, raped and murdered non-combatants and the one that started this war of aggression would be penalized more than the country that might have done some minor looting.
Our missions always had an NCO tasked with writing checks or handing out cash for damages, post op leader meetings. Those small villages weren't made to withstand our vehicles and antennas. Pretty embarrassing at times!
This was Afghanistan by the way. RC North, and East
Love the new Bunker Branding bit at the end...
Video on the subject matter was well done as well....
It was silly for 18 yo soldiers to be videoing it so the Russians can propagandize it, but leaving notes seems a luxury an American unit that has overwhelming force, material, and wealth would do. When the Russians employ glide bombs and artillery to kill tens of thousands of your fellow soldiers, I can understand Ukrainian soldiers acting stupid at certain points.
I am well aware of that. That’s why I say that this is a totally different conflict than what I am used to.
Thank you Ryan for respecting the AFU by telling it like it is. I stand with Ukraine because Ukraine represents to me Honor and Light (栄光). I believe the AFU is committed to the highest standards. That is the very reason why I hope action is taken when individuals make mistakes, in every case. These guys too, if they did what it looks like they did. However, the punishment should be proportionate to the the violation. Also, I hope there will be understanding that these guys have been defending their people in a war brought by an enemy who has shown us all the most shocking examples of what War Crimes are.
I have seen russian soldiers do this and much worse to Ukrainian supermarkets so I really can't be too angry at this, or at all.
There may be a bit of tit for tat. Have we heard about the Russians looting in captured Ukrainian shops or homes? I can't say that I have, but I'd bet real money the Russians cleaned places out.
My late wife's family were Germans in East Prussia when the Soviet Army came through. Those Russian soldiers made "pillage" sound like a cutesy word. What they couldn't take with them, they destroyed. The German population fled, some of them deluded to think that they were going to get their homes and property back once the German Army counterattacked. So they locked the doors of their houses. Not only didn't they get their homes back, when the war ended, their homes (if not burned down) were in Poland, not Germany.
saw a report that local residents that did not evacuate are looting out all the supermarkets for food , water etc because the stores are shut down. so another possibility is the soldiers grabbed the food,water , pop and gave it to locals?
it won't take long for the stores to be empty. this is russia after all.
Hopefully Ukraine is bright enough to make a public statement that they will pay for what they took but not pay for what Russians loot. High road them.
Never ceases to amaze me the degree to which US military will go to adhere not only to Geneva Convention and other international agreements, but to our moral code.
Hope these boys left an IOU.
In my unit when we were in Iraq, we dumped the entire contents of our supply trucks so we could rescue enemy combatants who were left behind by their disintegrating units. My company went without any supply for several days so we could transport those Iraqi soldiers, when it would have been easy and safe to just leave them there in the middle of nowhere to die. We dumped literally over 2 tons of supplies in the Iraqi desert to save them. It was a sight to see and made me proud to be in my unit. The Iraqi soldiers were so grateful they could hardly believe what we were doing. We let them eat all they could from the dumped supplies and take whatever they could carry on the truck as long as everyone somehow fit. I remember how shocked I was to see them ravenously eating even the worst parts of MREs they were so starved.
Didn't anyone notice the open empty boxes being scanned, looks like they were scanning items from a junk pile. (damaged goods)
the locals are looting the supermarkets so could be the soldiers found the store already being looted and made a stupid video
At a glance, this looks bad, no doubt. Not sure if it helps or hurts that the "bought items" are empty for sorting this out and investigating. It will not make a difference from a social media perspective of react and pass along.
I will say, having a former US NCO cite specific Geneva Convention Articles does make me feel better about the US military.
They’re just preventing disease and vermin from spoiling the food or a missile attack. After seeing the 36th in Bucha Yirpin, getting guys to not refill off the Russian system is going to be hard, there are degrees of looting, I notice all the liquor stores were left untouched, that’s the difference in the two armies period.
Taking groceries isn’t the same as looting a bank or a museum….