FWIW, I was a weekend dispatcher at the University Police Dept while a student in the mid-1980s. On the shelf in the dispatch office, we had preplans in 3 ring binders for if a sniper incident at all of the tall buildings on campus. They had roadblock and counter sniper positions with distances and fields of fire. They were pretty detailed, but hadn't been updated in at least a decade. There was no mention of demolition and new construction around campus. Still, they were impressive and someone (no idea who) did a lot of work preparing them.
For what it’s worth, I worked briefly with facilities when I attended OSU, and this is absolutely not a new thing. Once you know to start looking at large gatherings on campus as soft targets, and what buildings certain LEOs have unlimited roof access to, it becomes normal. This is not new to this one protest, it’s just that a lot of people don’t look for it during sporting events and other larger, graduation style events.
Every time I go to a football game, I play a little game with myself to see if they still have the same positions, or if they redo sight lines due to new building construction on campus.
Up watching this live early this morning and got driven to distraction, as you referenced University of Indiana (it's Indiana University), Indiana State (in Terre Haute), and Bloomington, Illinois. Dunn Meadow was the typical gathering place for campus activists, whether it was Occupy Bloomington, hippie frisbee, or a couple just going at it on a blanket in the middle of the day.
The so-called "Jordan River" (tiny creek) runs though Dunn Meadow, with a high level of fecal coliform. In short, Dunn Meadow is a gather place for campus goons. The top of the Student Union is the ideal place if you're looking to pick somebody off. As it was, they were probably just scoping the miscreants.
Notice the the video with the closer look at the weapon ( conveniently located at the only open section of that wall) is a semi-auto model of some sort on a tripod facing down to the floor ( roof) of the building and the picture from the ground is of a bolt action Rem 700 type. I'm retired US Army Special Forces. And although I am not a schooled sniper, I was the team sergeant for a sniper who had been through 3 of the top sniper schools in the military. I learned a lot from that training operation and from other qualified snipers in our unit that taught what you would call marksmanship training. Hanging a rifle that far over the edge of a building is such a novice move I find it hard to believe this is real, also how high up his posture is. It's not impossible for that to be a real photo of a real marksman up there but it seems phony to me. Possibly this is all photoshop? Not that I wouldn't be fine with having a marksman ready. Also the sleeve in the picture with the two officers is just way too big and looks like a large telescopic lens for a camera for observation and identification.
On October 7, when Hamas returned to Gaza with the corpses and prisoners they were targeted by the lovely "Palestinians" for further harassment and rape. I have not seen even one Arab leader--much less any Palestinian do any more than claim that they were not involved. The legal principle--under western law and sharia is "qui tacet consentire videtu" (he who is silent seems to consent). But it's more than that. Palestinians knowingly put HAMAS in power knowing that their position was the expulsion of all jews from all of Israel.
For all intents and purposes Palestine is the largest prison camp on the planet. There's really no way out of it (unless you are lucky).
You have the prison yard gangsters (Hamas) that tell you they're digging a tunnel through your basement whether you like it or not. If you do not, they just kill you and your family. They steal your medical and food aid through corruption in the prison.
Plus these are the guys that dole out your (stolen) food and medical aide (because they will just fucking kill anyone that says otherwise).
Meanwhile a country with a completely different religion keeps dropping bombs on you because of said tunnels. You've lost your Dad, your sister, your 3 brothers, etc etc.
There is no real education, other than indoctrination through religion.
Ohh and there are no prison guards. No one gives a fuck about you.
Unfortunately there's no solution either because no *trusted* partners of Palestine are wiling to step up and help enforce peace there...
And they havnt held elections since 2006. The average age of Palestinians is 18. That means that half the population is under 18 and most didn’t vote in that election. Did we mug bush and Cheney when they invaded Iraq illegally? No. Also, Hamas only controls half of the Palestinian territory but the West Bank has been attacked as well.
No, they very much are not. First off, only Gaza is controlled by Hamas. Second, Palestinians are not all terrorists, even in Gaza. That’s just an objectively bigoted statement.
There’s going to be some many recording devices at these rallies. Not just audio and video. You can bet there’s going to be lots of “free for the public” WiFi hotspots suddenly pop up.
There has not been a Suicide attack by Iranian . Note Iran has changed its English text of their demonstration against US to down with America to reflect the correct meaning of their persian protest. The direct translation of any language does not convey meaning. The phrase Marg bar in the contest of political speech means down with. It does not mean to plan for death or attack. Don’t believe your own propaganda.
Organizing a task force to monitor and control a demonstration that has a great potential to become violent, even deadly, is no easy task.
The presence of tall buildings that overlook an area where demonstrators gather provides a golden opportunity to monitor what is happening on the ground.
One could issue expensive high power telescopes and binoculars with some sort of steady rest to rank and file officers.
They would probably lack the specialized training and skills required to identify threats and otherwise conduct an effective surveillance from a distance.
Having trained marksmen on a force is expensive.
Having an opportunity to justify their existence, provide field work experience and take advantage of the gear they are already issued makes for a lot of sense to use trained marksmen for rooftop surveillance duty.
Their rifles have high power scopes and tripods that allow detailed scanning of crowds and surrounding area for long periods of time without muscle fatigue.
And, heaven forbid, should the need arise, they are already in position to be utilized as effective marksmen.
I am afraid your basic assumption, that it is legitimate to put a police sniper covering a peaceful demonstration because of the danger of a suicide bomber or some other kind of lethal action by a radical Islamist (or just some nut) is likely is borderline silly. Of course terrorists do exist, and they don’t always act within what we would consider rational motivations by ordinary American standards, but I think you should be balancing the chances of that kind of danger, with the possibility of accidental or misjudged firing by the sniper, especially since you suggest he had no spotter, which itself might suggest a lower level of professionalism than we might find in the military. We have no idea who is controlling that sniper, or what his orders are, but I think we can’t forget Kent State, where lethal mistakes were made by the National Guard (Four Dead In Ohio). Moreover, I am also uncomfortable from the fact that in Israel police snipers (and IDF snipers) have been used to shoot and kill the leaders of unarmed and non-violent Palestinian demonstrations, an established tactic. Of course its a long way from Jerusalem to Indiana State, but there are right wing nuts in the police and military just like there are in the rest of the population, who might be fans of Israeli military and Israel generally and admire their tactics. And as we see from Kent State and other police shootings, accidents do happen.
I think you also make an error in assuming that the term “Intifada” is somehow synonymous with Hamas or Islamic fundamentalism. Suicide bombs were used in the second Intifada, but it is a big leap to think Palestinians are going to travel to Indiana University for something like this, or some locally grown Islamic nut would put all that together for a demonstration like this. How many examples of Islamic suicide bombs do we have in the United States? I think it’s none, so there really needs to be some balance between real and supposed threats and the danger of accidental firing by a sniper. Interesting analysis and process though, thanks for posting this.
Just to clarify I think the protests were in support of Palestinians not Hamas.
Bloomington is a pretty quant community and I think a lot of citizens were put off by the overly militarized response to the protesters. Police and administration may have also communicated a little better as to why they had the overwatch and national guard in place...
Ultimately I see the Isreali/Palistinian/Hamas debacle as a lose-lose-lose situation. I don't think it'll ever be fixed.
Also, intifada, as you know, translates to uprising or shake off. It refers both to the violent terrorism as well as the non-violent protests that happen more frequently than the violence from the terrorists. I want all civilians to be safe on both sides. When people like me on the left say “victory to the intifada”, we mean victory to Palestine shaking off the oppression of Israel and becoming its own completely sovereign state.
FWIW, I was a weekend dispatcher at the University Police Dept while a student in the mid-1980s. On the shelf in the dispatch office, we had preplans in 3 ring binders for if a sniper incident at all of the tall buildings on campus. They had roadblock and counter sniper positions with distances and fields of fire. They were pretty detailed, but hadn't been updated in at least a decade. There was no mention of demolition and new construction around campus. Still, they were impressive and someone (no idea who) did a lot of work preparing them.
For what it’s worth, I worked briefly with facilities when I attended OSU, and this is absolutely not a new thing. Once you know to start looking at large gatherings on campus as soft targets, and what buildings certain LEOs have unlimited roof access to, it becomes normal. This is not new to this one protest, it’s just that a lot of people don’t look for it during sporting events and other larger, graduation style events.
Every time I go to a football game, I play a little game with myself to see if they still have the same positions, or if they redo sight lines due to new building construction on campus.
Up watching this live early this morning and got driven to distraction, as you referenced University of Indiana (it's Indiana University), Indiana State (in Terre Haute), and Bloomington, Illinois. Dunn Meadow was the typical gathering place for campus activists, whether it was Occupy Bloomington, hippie frisbee, or a couple just going at it on a blanket in the middle of the day.
The so-called "Jordan River" (tiny creek) runs though Dunn Meadow, with a high level of fecal coliform. In short, Dunn Meadow is a gather place for campus goons. The top of the Student Union is the ideal place if you're looking to pick somebody off. As it was, they were probably just scoping the miscreants.
Actually this was exactly the reason I suspected.
There to protect the officers and end any crazies quickly.
Notice the the video with the closer look at the weapon ( conveniently located at the only open section of that wall) is a semi-auto model of some sort on a tripod facing down to the floor ( roof) of the building and the picture from the ground is of a bolt action Rem 700 type. I'm retired US Army Special Forces. And although I am not a schooled sniper, I was the team sergeant for a sniper who had been through 3 of the top sniper schools in the military. I learned a lot from that training operation and from other qualified snipers in our unit that taught what you would call marksmanship training. Hanging a rifle that far over the edge of a building is such a novice move I find it hard to believe this is real, also how high up his posture is. It's not impossible for that to be a real photo of a real marksman up there but it seems phony to me. Possibly this is all photoshop? Not that I wouldn't be fine with having a marksman ready. Also the sleeve in the picture with the two officers is just way too big and looks like a large telescopic lens for a camera for observation and identification.
They are supporting Palestine, not Hamas
On October 7, when Hamas returned to Gaza with the corpses and prisoners they were targeted by the lovely "Palestinians" for further harassment and rape. I have not seen even one Arab leader--much less any Palestinian do any more than claim that they were not involved. The legal principle--under western law and sharia is "qui tacet consentire videtu" (he who is silent seems to consent). But it's more than that. Palestinians knowingly put HAMAS in power knowing that their position was the expulsion of all jews from all of Israel.
Lets be honest here.
For all intents and purposes Palestine is the largest prison camp on the planet. There's really no way out of it (unless you are lucky).
You have the prison yard gangsters (Hamas) that tell you they're digging a tunnel through your basement whether you like it or not. If you do not, they just kill you and your family. They steal your medical and food aid through corruption in the prison.
Plus these are the guys that dole out your (stolen) food and medical aide (because they will just fucking kill anyone that says otherwise).
Meanwhile a country with a completely different religion keeps dropping bombs on you because of said tunnels. You've lost your Dad, your sister, your 3 brothers, etc etc.
There is no real education, other than indoctrination through religion.
Ohh and there are no prison guards. No one gives a fuck about you.
Unfortunately there's no solution either because no *trusted* partners of Palestine are wiling to step up and help enforce peace there...
And they havnt held elections since 2006. The average age of Palestinians is 18. That means that half the population is under 18 and most didn’t vote in that election. Did we mug bush and Cheney when they invaded Iraq illegally? No. Also, Hamas only controls half of the Palestinian territory but the West Bank has been attacked as well.
Split the hair if you want, but they are mostly the same thing.
No, they very much are not. First off, only Gaza is controlled by Hamas. Second, Palestinians are not all terrorists, even in Gaza. That’s just an objectively bigoted statement.
There’s going to be some many recording devices at these rallies. Not just audio and video. You can bet there’s going to be lots of “free for the public” WiFi hotspots suddenly pop up.
There has not been a Suicide attack by Iranian . Note Iran has changed its English text of their demonstration against US to down with America to reflect the correct meaning of their persian protest. The direct translation of any language does not convey meaning. The phrase Marg bar in the contest of political speech means down with. It does not mean to plan for death or attack. Don’t believe your own propaganda.
Greetings...
Well…
Organizing a task force to monitor and control a demonstration that has a great potential to become violent, even deadly, is no easy task.
The presence of tall buildings that overlook an area where demonstrators gather provides a golden opportunity to monitor what is happening on the ground.
One could issue expensive high power telescopes and binoculars with some sort of steady rest to rank and file officers.
They would probably lack the specialized training and skills required to identify threats and otherwise conduct an effective surveillance from a distance.
Having trained marksmen on a force is expensive.
Having an opportunity to justify their existence, provide field work experience and take advantage of the gear they are already issued makes for a lot of sense to use trained marksmen for rooftop surveillance duty.
Their rifles have high power scopes and tripods that allow detailed scanning of crowds and surrounding area for long periods of time without muscle fatigue.
And, heaven forbid, should the need arise, they are already in position to be utilized as effective marksmen.
I am afraid your basic assumption, that it is legitimate to put a police sniper covering a peaceful demonstration because of the danger of a suicide bomber or some other kind of lethal action by a radical Islamist (or just some nut) is likely is borderline silly. Of course terrorists do exist, and they don’t always act within what we would consider rational motivations by ordinary American standards, but I think you should be balancing the chances of that kind of danger, with the possibility of accidental or misjudged firing by the sniper, especially since you suggest he had no spotter, which itself might suggest a lower level of professionalism than we might find in the military. We have no idea who is controlling that sniper, or what his orders are, but I think we can’t forget Kent State, where lethal mistakes were made by the National Guard (Four Dead In Ohio). Moreover, I am also uncomfortable from the fact that in Israel police snipers (and IDF snipers) have been used to shoot and kill the leaders of unarmed and non-violent Palestinian demonstrations, an established tactic. Of course its a long way from Jerusalem to Indiana State, but there are right wing nuts in the police and military just like there are in the rest of the population, who might be fans of Israeli military and Israel generally and admire their tactics. And as we see from Kent State and other police shootings, accidents do happen.
I think you also make an error in assuming that the term “Intifada” is somehow synonymous with Hamas or Islamic fundamentalism. Suicide bombs were used in the second Intifada, but it is a big leap to think Palestinians are going to travel to Indiana University for something like this, or some locally grown Islamic nut would put all that together for a demonstration like this. How many examples of Islamic suicide bombs do we have in the United States? I think it’s none, so there really needs to be some balance between real and supposed threats and the danger of accidental firing by a sniper. Interesting analysis and process though, thanks for posting this.
What⁉️
I think someone already mentioned it. This event was in Bloomington Indiana (Indiana University). Indiana State University is in Terre Haute.
Bloomington does have a well equipped SWAT team. IU has a police force but no SWAT.
Look ma we famous!!!
Just to clarify I think the protests were in support of Palestinians not Hamas.
Bloomington is a pretty quant community and I think a lot of citizens were put off by the overly militarized response to the protesters. Police and administration may have also communicated a little better as to why they had the overwatch and national guard in place...
Ultimately I see the Isreali/Palistinian/Hamas debacle as a lose-lose-lose situation. I don't think it'll ever be fixed.
Also, intifada, as you know, translates to uprising or shake off. It refers both to the violent terrorism as well as the non-violent protests that happen more frequently than the violence from the terrorists. I want all civilians to be safe on both sides. When people like me on the left say “victory to the intifada”, we mean victory to Palestine shaking off the oppression of Israel and becoming its own completely sovereign state.